Searching for a mentor to teach me Pyrrha Omega

SpaghettiViking

Blink Master
I've been practicing with Poe for a week or two now, but I've hit a major plateau with my success. I've learned her moves (what buttons do what), her safety (what is generally safe/unsafe), and the majority of her combos listed here in this SA (there's a few of them that I still struggle to pull off). Despite all this, I don't know what I'm doing when I step into the ring and actually try to fight.

*How* should I play her? Better yet, how do I win with her? I know how to execute the moves, but my mixups and pressure are terrible. I find myself constantly at a loss for what do to, then default to a DNS B:4 only to end up getting owned when I go in. This usually occurs because I either step straight into the move I'm trying to whiff punish, or because my opponent sidesteps me and lays me out.


I especially struggle against characters with a keep away game such as Ivy, Astaroth, Xiba, Raphael, and Nightmare. I'm looking for someone who will sit down with me and run me through the thought processes of playing her properly, while showing me a few tricks along the way. I'm on XBL; my GT is in my signature down below.


When I play my main, Leixia, I have a distinct flow to my options. "I landed move X, now I will choose between Y and Z depending on what I think will be most likely to hit. Move Y/Z did/didn't work, now here's what I'll do..."

When I play Poe, I lack this feeling, leaving me confused and often predictable.


Help of any kind is much appreciated. :D
 

kAb

[12] Conqueror
Sometimes you need to make a read, but flow charting in general is a bad thing.
 

SpaghettiViking

Blink Master
I agree with you, actually. The "flowcharting" 'I'm attempting to describe isn't so much a set path of what moves to use as much as a list of several options that actually work for a given situation. It's not flowcharting, it's more like flow-option-selection. Knowing what the best group of options are for a situation. Another way to look at it is knowing what moves not to use for a situation.

For instance, when Leixia uses one of her -2 moves (4K/4A/WR K) her viable move set is restricted to roughly 10 options. Basically, it boils down to one of the following: Backstep, Sidestep, Run up throw, AAB, 2A, 2K, 4A+B, 3B, 4K, 66B, 44B, and CE. Sure she can use other moves here, but the likelihood that the best move for this situation isn't on the list is very small.

Amongst these options, a small group are most likely to be successful, these being AAB, 2A, 2K, Throw, and sidestep.
The others typically don't come into play until your opponent has specifically demonstrated that they have some counter that beats several of your own actions.


Perhaps this is just a sense we develop with time, but I think that an expert player can rather easily demonstrate what moves tend to work where, and why they work so well. This is part of why I'd like some help from an experienced Poe player.
 

Mayu

[09] Warrior
I'd gladly help you but as I live in France, I'm afraid we can't play together with a good connexion. ( Maybe 3 bar if we'd try )

But if you have some videos uploaded of your matches, I'm willing to help you progress.
Try to play Partisan as well. He's just so strong with Pyrrha Omega. ^^
 

Lasercakes

[12] Conqueror
Don't say option selection.
Option Select: A series of inputs that will be interpreted by the game's engine differently depending on the interaction of the characters at the time the sequence of inputs is performed.


The option that you take after being -2 isn't based on the "chance of success". It's based on what you think your opponent is going to do. First of all don't throw out DNS B at neutral unless you have extreme confidence in your read that you're going to catch someone doing a move or that you can challenge the move they are going to do.

You're getting punished for throwing out DNS B because you're getting read and what doesn't help is that Omega doesn't really have much to punish step at a distance. Stepping is a good read not only against you as a player, but against your character in general. You do have 66A, which does have amazing range and feels really bad to get hit by. However, if blocked you're more committed than if you were using your other options. 22K is really good for the same reason except that it can't chase back step, but it is only -6 on block, giving you more room to safely squirm around if you need to. DNS A is the riskiest step catch or back step chaser you have. It's high and is unsafe. But it certainly can be evasive and has the most distance. I feel it really shines against characters that don't have plentiful reverse mix-up options (Mitsu, Cerv, Nightmare, Siegfried, prob Raphael too) and especially if you can DNS A 236: B :4 somewhat reliably.


Anyway, you say you're getting zoned right? Don't be afraid to run up and block. In this game forward is the safest direction you can move. Run into their faces and throw them. Run into their faces like you're going to throw them and BB. Test the waters. If they refuse to stand when you're in their face hit them with bigger mids. You can try run up block, wait, BB as well.

Other characters/players want to be as annoying as you. They are the ones that want to be in your face. When you notice this is happening. You want to bully them out with BB as they try to get in.

Your mix-up game really stems from BB and throw and urgency that it makes your opponents feel to try to move out of it.


Learn when you should reverse mix-up and with what. 33B / 33B BT B+K into ring out is a win. 22B DNS B is safe and leads to like 80 damage. 33_99A+B is super safe on block. 11B kinda sucks, but it has a special place against situations that need to be beaten with a mid but 33 motion gets you too close and you get hit. 11A is kinda slow, but it is horizontal safe and low. B+K jumps and TCs, well, when it feels like it and on CH it's pretty gross. 33B+K A B also seems like a good idea, but I've never had the presence of mind to pull it off. And last but not least, 33_99A doesn't step verts as well, but it tech crouches reliably. You can force the game into making the


I know you didn't really ask, but A+B can be used to beat some character's BEs or basic strings just by mashing or very basic timing. A+Bing mids on reaction is a lot harder to do than doing it with vanilla Pyrrha's A+B since the window is smaller.


For your ground game. Don't stop 66Bing if they're eating it. They can ukemi CW or CCW or roll clockwise, but there's a lot of people who keep forgetting to respect it or simply just don't know any better down in low level player land. Against some players you might have to completely throw it out as an option though I believe it is completely safe to throw out for guard damage in some cases like after right side throw, but I'm not 100% sure. For sleepers and rollers, 3K, 1B, or 2K them. 1K is a risk you might not want to take since it can whiff. 66B if you think they'll roll backwards after. 3B hits clockwise rollers and grounded, but it's obviously pretty risky. For swag points jump over them and BT B+K. It is a dick magnet™ which means it tracks 100% and also hits grounded. If they start blocking, try a throw instead.
Back to important stuff; 4B if you think they'll wake up in your face, should have you covered for left and right ukemi as well.

Also, my personal advice, unless you've got him really scared, don't try to wake up throw a Siegfried. It causes the game engine to make Siegfried FC 3B you automatically.
 

SpaghettiViking

Blink Master
Don't say option selection.
Okay, we'll call it, "Manual Move Selection Optimization" then. :P

After Namco patched out the so called, "Fuzzy guard" glitch, there are very very few examples of true option selects in this game. The best example I can think of is buffering a Guard Impact behind a Just Guard, then inputting an attack that will come out regardless of which parry is successful. The GI only comes out if the JG fails, in this case. Technically I used the phrase incorrectly, but I doubt anyone here would get it confused with an actual option select.

The option that you take after being -2 isn't based on the "chance of success". It's based on what you think your opponent is going to do.
The idea of, "chance of success" that I mention is completely based on what the opponent is most likely to do, depending on your experiences and instincts. That's what making a read is. It seems to me that you're rephrasing the same idea.

If you think the opponent is most likely going to use move X, you make a counter against that move, while being aware that they also have options Y and Z available as well. If you guessed wrong, adjust accordingly.

You're getting punished for throwing out DNS B because you're getting read and what doesn't help is that Omega doesn't really have much to punish step at a distance. Stepping is a good read not only against you as a player, but against your character in general. You do have 66A, which does have amazing range and feels really bad to get hit by.
I do tend to hit with 66A fairly often. What do you recommend for followups when it catches step? Does it turn into the usual BB/Throw 50/50, then?

Other characters/players want to be as annoying as you. They are the ones that want to be in your face. When you notice this is happening. You want to bully them out with BB as they try to get in.

Your mix-up game really stems from BB and throw and urgency that it makes your opponents feel to try to move out of it.

Okay, so the general idea is to use BB as a safe ranged attack that makes them want to step, and use throws to set up Oki while killing step? This makes sense, but sounds risky, since the punishment for getting stepped or ducked is usually really heavy. She seems to lack a quick horizontal Mid to keep people honest. 2A and 3A are both REALLY short-ranged. Should I be using 22K up close to fish for frame advantage?


Learn when you should reverse mix-up and with what. 33B / 33B BT B+K into ring out is a win. 22B DNS B is safe and leads to like 80 damage. 33_99A+B is super safe on block. 11B kinda sucks, but it has a special place against situations that need to be beaten with a mid but 33 motion gets you too close and you get hit. 11A is kinda slow, but it is horizontal safe and low. B+K jumps and TCs, well, when it feels like it and on CH it's pretty gross. 33B+K A B also seems like a good idea, but I've never had the presence of mind to pull it off. And last but not least, 33_99A doesn't step verts as well, but it tech crouches reliably. You can force the game into making the

I know you didn't really ask, but A+B can be used to beat some character's BEs or basic strings just by mashing or very basic timing. A+Bing mids on reaction is a lot harder to do than doing it with vanilla Pyrrha's A+B since the window is smaller.

I love 22B DNS B, but I frequently find DNS B whiffing over their body. Is there some trick to making it land consistently?

What do you mean by 11A is horizontal safe? Is it that the first hit is -10 on block?

I've found that B+K acts a lot like Leixia's 1B+K, but with a tech jump, and a hit confirmed stab for big damage. I haven't found and great setups for it, but I sometimes find myself hopping a 2A or 2K with it when I'm in that -2 to +2 range.

By 33_99A do you mean 22_88A? 33_66_99 A are all the same move. ^_^ What's the rest of your statement supposed to be at the end of this blurb?

I know you didn't really ask, but A+B can be used to beat some character's BEs or basic strings just by mashing or very basic timing. A+Bing mids on reaction is a lot harder to do than doing it with vanilla Pyrrha's A+B since the window is smaller.

I haven't really played with A+B yet. I'll have to see about interrupting strings with it. It GI's all Mids that are not Thrusts, correct?

For your ground game. Don't stop 66Bing if they're eating it. They can ukemi CW or CCW or roll clockwise, but there's a lot of people who keep forgetting to respect it or simply just don't know any better down in low level player land. Against some players you might have to completely throw it out as an option though I believe it is completely safe to throw out for guard damage in some cases like after right side throw, but I'm not 100% sure. For sleepers and rollers, 3K, 1B, or 2K them. 1K is a risk you might not want to take since it can whiff. 66B if you think they'll roll backwards after. 3B hits clockwise rollers and grounded, but it's obviously pretty risky. For swag points jump over them and BT B+K. It is a dick magnet™ which means it tracks 100% and also hits grounded. If they start blocking, try a throw instead.
Back to important stuff; 4B if you think they'll wake up in your face, should have you covered for left and right ukemi as well.

Also, my personal advice, unless you've got him really scared, don't try to wake up throw a Siegfried. It causes the game engine to make Siegfried FC 3B you automatically.

Is 66B good for setting up whiffs on block?

I haven't played with 1B much. I didn't know that hit grounded.

The BT B+K thing I had no idea about. I'll have to play with that in training mode. Also, I laughed at the dick magnet thing.

As for Siegfried, I found that one out the hard way with Leixia already. Thanks for the advice though. His wakeup attacks are irritating.
 

Lasercakes

[12] Conqueror
I do tend to hit with 66A fairly often. What do you recommend for followups when it catches step? Does it turn into the usual BB/Throw 50/50, then?
Usually I keep guessing 66A/Throw lol. Against squirmy opponents I like to see how many times I can hit them with 66A, but honestly, go with what your heart tells you basically.

Okay, so the general idea is to use BB as a safe ranged attack that makes them want to step, and use throws to set up Oki while killing step? This makes sense, but sounds risky, since the punishment for getting stepped or ducked is usually really heavy. She seems to lack a quick horizontal Mid to keep people honest. 2A and 3A are both REALLY short-ranged. Should I be using 22K up close to fish for frame advantage?
Well, BB/Throw is just if they're going to stand there and take it. 66A is the best thing she has for a quick mid step catch, but -12 on block is not something you want to be. Use 66A to catch people. Use 22K to beat step / reverse mix-up without committing as hard but it is probably worse to whiff it.

I love 22B DNS B, but I frequently find DNS B whiffing over their body. Is there some trick to making it land consistently?
There's two visual cues I use for this. One is when her sword hand comes back to her waist after 22B. When you see that let DNS B rip. And the other is when you see your opponents feet reach their apex from the knock back. These tips may need your own personal fine tuning. Also, if you're getting 22B 236B, you're hitting B too early.

What do you mean by 11A is horizontal safe? Is it that the first hit is -10 on block?
Yes. -10 on block and catches step, but probably not that well. It's also kind of slow. I wouldn't throw it out too often. 11AA_11A(A) is also pretty much a gimmick.

I've found that B+K acts a lot like Leixia's 1B+K, but with a tech jump, and a hit confirmed stab for big damage. I haven't found and great setups for it, but I sometimes find myself hopping a 2A or 2K with it when I'm in that -2 to +2 range.
It's not as good as it was in SCIV, but that was a different system. It's honestly better for its attack on CH than its evasive properties, but I just thought I'd list them all.

By 33_99A do you mean 22_88A? 33_66_99 A are all the same move. ^_^ What's the rest of your statement supposed to be at the end of this blurb?
Built in step makes it more evasive, it also makes it impact later.

I was going to say, you can make the game use the move more evasively by doing a motion like 1123A or 223A so that you don't step into your opponent too much and get hit. I don't know where my sentence went.

I haven't really played with A+B yet. I'll have to see about interrupting strings with it. It GI's all Mids that are not Thrusts, correct?
Yup.

Is 66B good for setting up whiffs on block?
Yes. But a smart opponent won't risk whiffing something most of the time and if 66B whiff you're in the same kind of trouble.


Also, I laughed at the dick magnet thing.
Blossom's term, but he doesn't post much if at all.
 

HolyCarp

[14] Master
Seditious & Lasercakes said:
mid step-killers

iWR A is a nice alternative to 66A when you need a safe option. It comes out a little slower because of iFC, but its safety and improved TC frames make me think I should be using this move more often.

Seditious & Lasercakes said:
Again, I don't think I use this move often enough either - it can be incredibly useful when you're at about -2 and know your opponent will go for a fast poke. For example, I recently discovered that 2K into RCC B+K is just so dirty.

Using Pyrrha as an example, immediately after you hit her with a 2K, RCC B+K will TJ her 2A or 2K and TS her BB (and most other mids she'd use for anti-air). It loses to AA, but if she starts to AA in response to being put at +2, you can always duck and stab. It's quite a nice tool to allow you to continue applying pressure at slight disadvantage.
 

Mayu

[09] Warrior
B+K damages the guard very well :p
Great damages on Counter ( 72-80, 90 with Clean hit >_<" )
Sometimes, you can mix-up with B+K and B+KB...haahaha, so opponents really wait after B+K on block.

Not easy to put in set-up; but still an move we should use more.

@HolyCarp -> How do you do the RCC ?? Do you have any tips to share ?
 

HolyCarp

[14] Master
@HolyCarp -> How do you do the RCC ?? Do you have any tips to share ?

Simply tap 6 as soon as the 2K animation is over, so the input is basically 2K > 6 > B+K (or 2K > 65B+K). You want to RCC immediately after the 2K recovers otherwise you won't B+K fast enough to jump over 2A (the timing required to evade 2K and BB is slightly more forgiving as these moves are a little slower).

To practise it, go into training against any character with a generic i13 2A and set the dummy to have:
Movement 1: all standing guard
Movement 2: attack with 2A

I was meaning to share this tech in the Q&A thread but I forgot :P


...and it may be worth mentioning that if you expect them to 2A after your 2K, you can use 2K into RCC A+B. She gets her best follow ups after aGI'ing horizontals like 2A - DNS B without meter, 4B into CE with meter and stuff like NS K and NS B for ROs and wallsplats. B+K evades more options, but a successful A+B allows you to punish a 2A for nearly half life!