Solution for playing PS3 output in Vista 64?

T

Trooper_Max

[08] Mercenary
I got a pretty cheap little RCA yellow/white/red component to USB dealie (EzCAP USB Video Grabber) and it works alright for capturing low quality screenshots/video, but the software (ArcSoft ShowBiz DVD 2) it comes with wouldn't be suitable for playing live (it does show a live display, but it's small and has no options for expanding it or making it full screen, though the quality would suck anyway).

Anyone know a better solution for doing this? I'm guessing some more expensive hardware is in order and not sure what software to use (but software would hopefully come with it, especially if it's more expensive XD)... The goal essentially would be to have a window (which I could maximize or make full screen) in which I can play my PS3 games (or whatever other inputs I provide) while also making it easy to take screenshots/video.

I know I could use a splitter and play on my TV and also have it output to my PC for capture, but I'd like to free up my TV so I can have it playing um.... TV ;)

Plus I've been out of touch with the console world and am more used to playing games on my PC XD

~Troop
 
Yep, you'll need to get some other hardware to achieve that. The quality will be dependent mostly on hardware you use and how it's setup.

RCA cables are only good for old standard NTSC/PAL signals (and their variants) usually interlaced, a technique used in the days of old CRTs(TV tubes) to display video by splitting it into lines across an upper and lower field and alternately displaying them (refresh or flicker rate). Nowadays, nearly all video signals are progressive in nature, that is shown all at once by frame, and on the computer by pixel. Without going into further technical details, the kind of capture device you're looking for will be one that can pick up progressive video format.

The PS3 video outputs best using either component cables (RGB - Red Green Blue, while using Red White additionally or optical fiber for audio) or HDMI cables. The problem with HDMI on PS3 however & other Blueray players, is the output signal is HDCP encrypted (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) which will require HDCP compliant capture card, which as far as I know dont exist, for obvious reasons.

So the best way (without any modifcation) on the PS3 will be via RGB component cables, so find a card that supports this format. For Standard Def, you're gonna set it to output 480p, while for HD, you either choose 720p or 1080p.

The next question is which card? That depends on how much your willing to spend and what you want to do.

I suggest if you want to casually capture and set it up so you can use your computer display alongside your computer (like a media center) get a consumer level TV tuner/graphics card solution - like an AMD/ATI-All in Wonder or Hauppauge? I dont know what the latest lineup are from these companies but do some research to find out all the bells and whistles they offer. If you plan on doing professional video editing and need a solid card, I recommend going with a card from Blackmagic-Design like the "Intensity".

If you decide HD, keep in mind, you're gonna need a pretty decent computer (multicore CPU, multiple hard drives - fast and lots of capacity - ideally set up as an array or RAID config) and software that can handle it.
 
Thanks for the advice, unfortunately I went on a trip and wasn't able to make use of it for a while.

Looking at the Hauppage Products and they don't appear to support component input:
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/compare/compare_hvr-internal.html
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/compare/compare_mckit.html

So I don't think I'm considering Hauppage an option at this point.

ATI's Product Matrix shows support for composite all the way across though:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-product-matrix.aspx

So ATI seems to have some viable options.

Blackmagic's Intensity product you mentioned seems very appealing as well though (albeit more expensive):
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

So my concerns now between ATI and Blackmagic are software compatibility and performance. The ATI products tout Windows Media Center compability, but I'm not sure if the Intensity supports WMC or if there are other media center/software solutions for simply watching the live feed? My concerns then fall to performance and what the latency will be for these solutions. Will the Intensity perform better than ATI? or might it have better quality at increased latency?

I'm very tempted to get the Intensity though, even if it doesn't prove quite suitable for live play (though I would hope that it does), it does seem like a very appealing piece of capturing hardware. I do have a pretty decent computer (quad-core, 8 gigs ram, GeForce 8800 GT) but don't have a RAID setup (though the hard drives I have are western digital raptor and caviar).

Honestly, I'm probably more interested in the media center capabilities, making ATI seem like the way to go for a cheaper product easier to use with Windows Media Center. Guess I just find myself wondering if there is a suitable live play option for the Intensity product and if it would have better latency/quality, because it does look like a very respectable piece of hardware.

~Troop
 
The Blackmagic Intensity is not designed as a media tuner but simply an entry level professional HD capture solution. As far as latency is concerned I find it very minimal if not all together negligible. But then again, I dont run tournaments but use it primarily for video editing projects. I've made several machinima films using it and often times will just play games both from my PS3 and Xbox 360 directly off it. As far as I'm concerned, it's pretty much "realtime". It has HDMI input/output as well as breakout dongle that has multiple input/outputs for component/composite/S-Video so you can send the signal via outputs to an external monitor if needed.

But keep in mind, this is a capture card device and not a media tuner device so if you want Media Center functionality, you're probably better off with something from ATI or similar manufacturer. But for what it does, it'll definitely beat anything ATI has to offer.

If you're going to capture HD, you WILL need a RAID setup and lots of storage space, period. Even the Raptor drives @ 10K RPM will not be enough to keep up with HD data rates: 1280x720p (59.94fps) = 106MB/sec or 375.6GB/hr for uncompressed HD. Otherwise capturing SD should be fine with fast single hard drive coupled with any recent computer (preferably multi-core processor).

You can however choose to capture with a realtime compression codec which will reduce the size but will use up more CPU resources. Performance and quality will vary depending on what kind of computer you got, software and type of compression or codec. The thing to keep in mind about video codecs is when you're capturing video you're using an intermediate codec (Lagarith, Cineform, MJPEG, DVCPro, Redcode, etc) as oppose to delivery codec (Divx, Xvid, WMV, H264, etc). An intermediate codec is simply a form of compression used for acquisition and archival purposes. They are usually slightly smaller than uncompressed video but still large enough to retain quality and allow easy editing without much decoding. The delivery codec is what you use for distribution, (web, dvd, home video, etc) and is highly compressed so usually suffers in quality and/or requires more CPU resources for decoding.

Codecs vary in quality and performance. Some are free and some will cost you. Blackmagic supplies you with MJPEG. Personallly I dont like it, too much pixel jaggies. I use Cineform which is to the human eye indistinguishable to uncompressed HD but the codec alone is more expensive than Blackmagic card and possibly your whole computer too. So you're probably better off getting 2 large hard drives in RAID. Also, you will need some kind of editing software too.

Really, it just depends on what you want to do. If you're seriously thinking about going into video editing, than I recommend going with the Blackmagic card otherwise any other solution should be fine. One thing if you want to output to HD, just make sure the device has HD I/O ports - either HDMI (in & out) and/or Component. Looking at the ATI solutions, it doesent mention anything about component inputs which is kind of odd. My guess is it just captures HD off the tuner for broadcast/cable signals. Composite connections are for SD. So check before you make the purchase.
 
Thanks again for all the information.

As a quick solution from a local computer store, I found an hdmi cable and an hdmi to dvi adapter so I can pipe the video directly to my second monitor. For the audio, I connected the rca white/red connectors to some rca female/female sockets and then used a male stereo to male rca white/red cable (which was designed for connecting iPods to audio systems, but I use it backwards), and connect the male rca side to the sockets and connect the male stereo as a line in on my computer for playback. My monitor has analog d-sub input (my computer is connected here) and dvi input (can now connect my PS3 here), so it works pretty well and I am able to switch between them using the monitor's settings. And when I turn off the PS3 it automatically switches back to the analog input/my second desktop. So this is a great solution for playing.

I also saw the ATI/Hauppage capture cards in the store and didn't see that there was any way to hook components up to any of them... Looks like I got mixed up before when I was reading ATI's product matrix, I thought I saw component on there somewhere, but now I don't... wishful thinking I guess >_>

I'm still very interested in the Intensity though, as the quick solution above isn't a way of capturing video or even taking screenshots. I'm glad to hear you found the latency to be pretty negligible. What software do you use when you say you just play your PS3 and 360 direct off it? I think I'm just interested in what the final look/feel is like, if it's easy to get the video output running in a window that I can resize/minimize/maximize/make full screen or if I'd likely be actually running some program designed for video capture that just happens to have a live display available (in which case can it be quickly minimized/resized/made full screen?). The possibility of being able to stream the feed to a friend is intriguing too...

As it currently stands though, I'm only casually interested in video capture/editing... I know it can require a lot of time/resources, but I may dabble. I probably will end up getting an Intensity card, just a question of how soon... will I dedicate the time/resources to it that it deserves, probably not >_> but dabbling can be fun too :D

~Troop
 
As I already mentioned, the Blackmagic Intensity is a capture card device. Let's be clear about this. You're not gonna get all the bells and whistles of a media tuner device.

As far as how I play directly off the Intensity, there's 2 ways I do this.

I use Cineform's HDLink (not to be confused with Blackmagic's HDLink hardware monitoring platform). It's a separate app that comes included with Cineform's codec package which has support for Blackmagic and Aja cards. I can play directly off the preview screen but the screen of course will be in a window and you cant maximize it full screen or scale it in any way. It's fairly large enough (for me) to play within it but its not meant for display purposes. You can do ths similarly with the Media Express software included with Intensity or within your video editing software if it has capture capability, granted its has Intensity support. Sony Vegas Pro, Adobe Premiere Pro (along with cheaper consumer level Adobe Premiere Elements) and Final Cut Pro on the Mac will work with Intensity.

The other method is to have a separate monitor (whether TV or Computer monitor) connected to HDMI out or component outputs on the Intensity. I have mine hooked up via HDMI to a HDTV set next to my edting workstation (2 desktop LCD monitors on the PC + an additional LCD HDTV set next to it). The video signal from the Intensity's output isn't just a passive feed but is a processed signal. Essentially with the right software, you can use the card to display live video broadcast with realtime overlays like graphics, titles, etc if you need to. Also, there is no lag or latency (humanly negligible if any) between the input and outputs. What I see on the preview window on my PC is in sync with what I see on my HDTV via output. I've played through entire game of Uncharted 2 and even Halo 3 online without issue so really, its realtime.

You wont really need any special software to display real time monitoring other than whats already included in the box, Media Express software. But I would suggest downloading to latest driver/firmware and getting their latest Media Express software (v2.0.1 at the time of this posting) free from their website as it has more features to work with. What's important is that your external monitor supports the source resolution - HD 720p, 1080i, 1080p.

Go over the documentation from Blackmagic-design and see if this is the right solution for you.
http://blackmagic-design.com/downloads/manuals/eng/IntensityManual.pdf

Also worth mentioning, if you do plan on purchasing the Intensity, make sure you get "the Intensity Pro" and not the standard "Intensity" card. The Intensity Pro has HDMI i/o ports AND breakout cable port for analog i/o ports. The standard Intensity which is now discontinued has ONLY HDMI i/o ports (no dongle) which in your case would be useless for the PS3. Just be sure which one you buy as some vendors maybe still carrying these old ones.

What you mentioned bout streaming to a friend, I have no clue as the card doesnt do that. But you have Youtube...
 
Thanks again for all the info. And yeah, I don't think I really care about all the little bells and whistles; just trying to get a clearer picture of what I would be getting and I think you've helped in that regard.

As far as streaming to a friend, I had noticed that on their "software" page it mentions "live streaming":
http://blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/software/

I think when I looked at it before, they had some kind of generic streaming software box on there in their little diagram, but now it looks like it shows Adobe Flash CS4 Professional. Not sure if it is talking about streaming a video feed over a network or creating a file that is in a streaming format, maybe just the latter, though it seems like the former should be possible with the right software... but that was what was worrying me when they were just referring to some generic "streaming software", just how easy it will be to find all the software desired for various things or how much it actually comes with, etc. Since it seems very much like they're not saying "it comes with this, that, and the other software" so much as they're saying "it works with/is compatible with this, that, and the other software". Which I understand, and even that some software may be expensive, was just trying to get a feel for the software availability.

~Troop
 
I think they are referring to starting out with a good raw HD format to use to convert to any "stream" format depending on your editing software. Going back to what I was saying about CPU resources during editing, it's ideal to utilize either uncompressed formats or an Intermediate codec that will retain high quality and doesnt use up a lot of computer resources to decode it. The only software (other than drivers/fimware) Blackmagic provides is Media Express. If you plan to dabble in video editing, make sure to check out some editing software and find which one will be right for you.

Here's wikipedia's list of proprietary and free editing software packages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_editing_software

The most popular high level editing packages are Adobe Premiere/After Effects, Sony Vegas Pro, Final Cut Pro (Mac), Avid and Edius. But these can vary from being moderately expensive (few hundred dollars) to very expensive (1-3+ thousand dollars) but worth every penny and powerful used by mainstream film companies whether it be Hollywood, independents movies, tv, commercials, etc... There are also cheaper consumer level versions with less features (but still powerful to certain degree) so check those out as well. Both the pro-versions and consumer versions for most of these editors should have trial versions you can download to take for a spin. But if all you want to do is capture a stream with basic editing features check out the free stuff like VirtualDubMod, Windows Movie Maker, or iMovie on Mac.

Of course, the hard (but fun) part will be learning how to use it all and learning the whole art of film making, editing, camera techniques, cinematography, post production, special effects, etc... Like other arts, it will be a life long learning process that never ends acquiring and perfecting all the tricks of the trade.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom