Trouble Fighting Cass, Voldo, an Lizardman

daedricmudcrab

daedricmudcrab

[08] Mercenary
Hey, so I've pretty much been playing as Taki since I fell in love with Soul Calibur 2. I've never really had problems fighting people since I didn't play online and only played against my brother, who only really plays as Ivy. Then I decided to start buying xbox live a week ago and realized how flawed my playing is against really anyone but my brother. So I've been practicing a lot. But 4 characters still really push my buttons and are hard to think through for me. One is Mitsu but there's already a thread about that and it's helped me some. There are three others though:

The first is Cassandra. It seems like whenever I fight a good Cassandra, I can't even get a move off let alone a combo. Whenever she finishes hitting me with one thing, she somehow gets me right into another combo before I can blink. There seems to be no time for me to punish her.

The second is Voldo. The good voldos i play against are constantly moving and I'm not sure what range to stay at since he has good short and long range moves, or what kind of openings to look for for attacks, since he can do well with his back turned and even sometimes when he's on the ground.

The last is Lizardman. Normally, I'm fine against him, but whenever he goes into that crawling state, i kind of freeze up. My low attacks don't seem to be fast enough to hit him before he gets a move off, and he keeps using that rolling thing. So sometimes I would use stalker to get behind him, but he uses the backwards rolling move too, which is reaaallly damn annoying.

Please help! I really want to improve, and I know you guys can help :)
 
Repeling can help you alot!
About Cassie,there must be a move that ends each combo,Taki is the fastest character in the series,becarefull,most of Casssandra's combo's end with 236B,4BBA(just),i usually use Taki's 1BA after each combo.
About Lizardman,when ever he keeps on rolling,use 3B after he roles.he'll get hit!
I hope this helps =x
 
First off, losing online doesn't have to mean that your playing is flawed, it also means that online is flawed.
Input delay, unsafes harder to punish etc.

Against Cass, maybe others can help you because i'm not that experienced with her. Only advice is that she can make your attacks whiff easily with her 214 GI backdash.

Voldo, has really good Soul Gauge damage, evasion and is often safe or range safe on block(meaning your attacks are either too slow or short ranged to punish him)
Where he lacks is tracking, so what i posted about Taki's awesome step in the other thread works even better against Voldo. Also when i play vs him i try to beat him with his own strenght: Evasion, taki has lots of tech jumps and tech crouches, that make her a huge pain in the ass for Voldo too. And is really fun.
Voldos BT 1A is a real pain because it's quite fast and worse it's often safe, depending on range, i can only advise a lot of tech jumps, like Taki k2, which also helps against many of his crawl shenanigans. Voldo's BT 1A is also steppable but that's a bit tricky.
Voldo on the edge is also nasty, he can TC RO you like most of the cast, has crawl low RO, and aGI(against mids or verticals, not sure) RO too. Try not to be with your back to the edge. I also think he has a RO throw but i don't know which.

Lizardman is actually not as evil as the Sisters, k2 and jump attacks(9A, 9B, 9KKK) help against his crawl, the jump attacks either beat, or at least evade most of his crawl options. Also when you jump over him and are fast enough(depends on moves) you can do BT A+B for big combo.
His 1AK and 2BK (that end with head butt) are quite unsafe on block.
His 66A attack stuns you and is good overall (range, tracking), but the stun is shakable.
Watch out for his A+B (jumping beatdown) it is quite slow but gives a lot of damage and SG damage on block, you can step it or aGI it with 4B. But step and punish is better i think.
His 1B+K UB is jumpable, step can fail in some situations.
His 8A+B UB is stalker air throwable when he is being predictable with it.
His RO game is a bit evil with several TC ROs, Low RO, and his A+G throw rings you out to Lizzy's left i think.
 
Thanks! As far as Cass, the only moves I really use to punish are AY combos but 1YA is also great you're right.
For Voldo, I think with you're help I can really predict his moves and use stepping, etc to punish, I just need to learn his moveset more.
And Lizardman's makes total sense now. I think part of it was all the delay that happens online, but this is really great help! Thanks!
 
And a little tip for notation: Noone here uses Xbox/PS3 specific (Y, X, circle, square) button notation because its a multi platform game, PS3 users like me don't understand Xbox notation and vice versa.
We go with in game ABKG notation :)
 
daedricmudcrab said:
The first is Cassandra. It seems like whenever I fight a good Cassandra, I can't even get a move off let alone a combo. Whenever she finishes hitting me with one thing, she somehow gets me right into another combo before I can blink. There seems to be no time for me to punish her.
Click to expand...

This is your mistake right here. The majority of Cassandra's moves leave her at positive frames on hit, if you are trying to attack after she just finished hitting you, you are almost certainly going to get hit right back again as you are at frame disadvantage.
Taki is faster than Cassandra, you can use that to your advantage, your AA can poke me out of things that other characters cannot. Also remember that Cassandra is an extremely linear character, step and 8wr can evade a lot of her moves.
Look at the frame data in the wiki, and try to avoid using moves that are -15/-16 on block or worse, as those will get you punished hard against her. And look at Cassandra's frame data as well, find which of her moves are unsafe on block and find which of her moves are positive frames on block, if you aren't punishing her or are constantly falling for her frame traps, you're almost certainly going to lose.
 
What Andur says is really important, knowning advantage and punishment can really save your life.
The trainable dummy in practice mode helps a lot. Train him to do Cassy moves and immediately block, then try to punish him.
Because even if a move is unsafe, blockstun often makes it hard to punish when unpracticed.
You can also train him to do taki moves and punish with cassy, to see what's safe.
You shouldn't train the dummy to punish you because he kinda sucks at that.

PS: safety and advantage also varies depending on range.
 
Very good point Andur. Except that Cass is not always linear character. A lot of her moves are. But I'm saying is a lot of those good Cass players use horizontal moves that prevent Taki from stepping. And Cass has greater stepping than Taki, so in a stepping race to avoid attacks Taki loses.
I would use AA less because Cass has many ducking moves too (including the low throw - she could fake low throw you to avoid your AA and she still wins on frames, I think) and those duckings usually a combo starter.
I use 3K or 3KK to stop her stepping or starting the next chain attack.
While Cassandra is a pain to deal with, she is also fun to play against. Some of her moves send her a float; so we the ninjas will catch her on air and send her back down. lol
 
Well i only really play Taki as well. My solutions r
Vs. Cassy- Jus remember that she has a GREAT Backstep which bait opponents into Whiffing... So I use a lot of Taki range moves wen i expect Cassy players to Backstep. Also Cassy 2B+K is really good against Taki, so know wen the player will use that, then GI it den go for a throw or 33B for guaranteed Damage.

Vs. Voldo- More of his damaging attacks or combo starters r Vertical and EASY to step. But if u step to much the player may start throwing out horizontals. If the Volda player likes to stay grounded it Voldo, use Taki's 2KK and/or K2.. Both moves r safe n puts the opponent in FC (Full Croutch)

Vs. Lizardman- Lol.. If the opponent spams the crawl stance, Jus 2B him out of it. But be careful cuz he can AGi (Auto Guard Impact) ur 2B. So bait him to use the AGi then hit him wit a 2KK and/or K2..

Only thing that sux about Taki is her damage. But i still manage to make her work.

Hope this helps my fellow Taki brother.
 
daedricmudcrab said:
Hey, so I've pretty much been playing as Taki since I fell in love with Soul Calibur 2. I've never really had problems fighting people since I didn't play online and only played against my brother, who only really plays as Ivy. Then I decided to start buying xbox live a week ago and realized how flawed my playing is against really anyone but my brother. So I've been practicing a lot. But 4 characters still really push my buttons and are hard to think through for me. One is Mitsu but there's already a thread about that and it's helped me some. There are three others though:

The first is Cassandra. It seems like whenever I fight a good Cassandra, I can't even get a move off let alone a combo. Whenever she finishes hitting me with one thing, she somehow gets me right into another combo before I can blink. There seems to be no time for me to punish her.

The second is Voldo. The good voldos i play against are constantly moving and I'm not sure what range to stay at since he has good short and long range moves, or what kind of openings to look for for attacks, since he can do well with his back turned and even sometimes when he's on the ground.

The last is Lizardman. Normally, I'm fine against him, but whenever he goes into that crawling state, i kind of freeze up. My low attacks don't seem to be fast enough to hit him before he gets a move off, and he keeps using that rolling thing. So sometimes I would use stalker to get behind him, but he uses the backwards rolling move too, which is reaaallly damn annoying.

Please help! I really want to improve, and I know you guys can help :)
Click to expand...

I will have to say next to Kilik these are probably Taki's 3 hardest match-ups (and Soph too) so preparing for this is pretty difficult.

Since you first started off with Cassandra I will also...

Cassandra can be very punishable with A:6 and if you can't A:6 properly an AA or AB Po Transition are options you can use if it is not a TC. If your opponent is catching you with alot of TC's then 3KK is your best option, and if you Wind Roll after words your at the advantage in a game of paper, rock, scissors (See chapter one of my tutorial to get an explanation for that). One of the main things dangerous about Cass is that she has an option for almost all of Taki's PO moves. If your opponent doesn't know how to punish her PO game then spam PO moves with certain safe moves like a 3K, AA, 3AK, etc. If your opponent does know this then your pretty much left with attacking when she's at negative frames. If you are not sure when your opponent is going to TC and punish Taki's A game then through a safe 3K or 3KK.

Now for Voldo......ugh the horrible nightmares. I'd have to say that this, by far, is Taki's worse match up on the game. Since Taki is one of the easier characters on the game to get soul crushed and Voldo has one of the best soul crush games this can get pretty scary, and since his BT A+B iGI can impact Taki's A game so well it makes you even more reluctant to attack. All I can tell you about Volvo is that truthfully, he's seems to be more punishable with his back turned. Since Volvo, like cassy, has some pretty nasty TC's a few 3KK's into your game when they're at negative frames wouldn't hurt, just be sorta cautious when doin this while he's in blind stance as his grab will go around your 3kk

And as for lizardman he's pretty much a 50/50 character through and through sticking to mid's and lows with very few high's. You don't have to TC much on Lizzy so stick to your A game safe lows, even a hover or two can work on this guy. The only thing that makes lizzy a bad match up for Taki is that when you guys are exchanging blows his blows will do more damage, so you will have to stay on the initiative. When he's in crawl stance, depending on what he does it can be stopped fairly quickly. If you block his A, then 1/2 K will cancel it. If you block his B you can jump over and behind him, his other two moves can be blocked on reaction. If you block his 1K then your WR BB will punish him if he tries to go into stance.

Hope this helps...
 
The last is Lizardman. Normally, I'm fine against him, but whenever he goes into that crawling state, i kind of freeze up.
Click to expand...
My options against this state:
1) Stay in high block all time) You can punish all his moves rather good.
2) If hi hit's you with low(A?) it's ok. Just do K2 and you will beat all his next options from crawl state, exept A, you will wiff and in frame disadvantage - and all this situation repeats) It's all sounds wierd, but if you read his A,A from crawl, you can step second A and punish it with A+B combo. So we turn riskReward in Taki's favor.

Some offline advice:
1) Train to block 1K on reaction, or it will be your nightmare, because he can spam it bouth in deafens and offense.
2) All Lizards like to spam 66A move, it's very obvious when they tries to do it) So try sometimes GI it on "reaction".
3) Don't rely on PO too much in this matchap, couse he can avoid all your moves with 4B+K (PO B, but it's too stepable)
 
Compare Taki's impact frames with Cassandra's recovery frames for punishment.
And Taki impact frames to Cassandra's safe attack recovery and impact frames for interrupts.
Programming the practice dummy to attack and block helps much :)
But keep in mind that Cass has good evasion so trying to interrupt can backfire in form of Cass 214 B or somesuch.

There are frame threads in the respective character forums and Wikis.
 
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