Raph confirmed as SCV Nightmare :D

Mer1L said:
English not, Japanese sure. Check it on Wiki.
What interests me, why Nightmare and Raphael are 2 diffirent chars in SCV, any ideas?
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That's because the Japanese are more skilled when it comes to voice acting (their voice actors become superstars). It doesn't mean anything, especially not when their voice actors aren't the same in English (that's a hint there).

So Nightmare kinda looks like Raphael underneath the armor? I'm thinking that it's more due to laziness than due to some great storyline conspiracy. And I don't the Soul series has ever had the same person present as two entirely different characters before (A-Patz and Oprah are still themselves, just at different points of story mode).

Besides, we get to see who's inside of Nightmare, it's Graf Dumas. And Oprah kills him. So, I'm putting my money on "laziness".
 
FallenAngelII said:
That's because the Japanese are more skilled when it comes to voice acting (their voice actors become superstars). It doesn't mean anything, especially not when their voice actors aren't the same in English (that's a hint there).

So Nightmare kinda looks like Raphael underneath the armor? I'm thinking that it's more due to laziness than due to some great storyline conspiracy. And I don't the Soul series has ever had the same person present as two entirely different characters before (A-Patz and Oprah are still themselves, just at different points of story mode).

Besides, we get to see who's inside of Nightmare, it's Graf Dumas. And Oprah kills him. So, I'm putting my money on "laziness".
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So you're going to ignore all the other similarities and hints just based on his model? There's more too it than just the model, a lot more. In my opinion too much to be chalked up to laziness.
 
taffertier said:
So you're going to ignore all the other similarities and hints just based on his model? There's more too it than just the model, a lot more. In my opinion too much to be chalked up to laziness.
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What "similarities"? "Castle Bat"? Sure, that must mean it's Raphael! The one similarity that has merit are their heights. That's it.
 
FallenAngelII said:
What "similarities"? "Castle Bat"? Sure, that must mean it's Raphael! The one similarity that has merit are their heights. That's it.
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You also forgot

Dumas has a body chained up in his castle dungeon
Raphael wakes up in a dungeon in his bio
Nightmare has an alt with an iron mask on it
Iron Mask, Dumas, and Raphael are all characters from the musketeers.
Same height
Same voice Actor

In 5 one of nightmares victory quotes is "Soul edge grant your master his wish!" When before he never said such a thing. Raphael's wish for soul edge is to make the perfect world for Amy and himself. In Raphael's endings for 2 and 3 he is seen dragging soul edge in it's two handed form rather than turning into a weapon familiar to him like it should for everyone. In his ending in 2 he also practically turns into nightmare with the hair and arm and everything.

Plus castle bat to add to that list now.
 
taffertier said:
Dumas has a body chained up in his castle dungeon
Raphael wakes up in a dungeon in his bio
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This has some merit to it.

taffertier said:
Nightmare has an alt with an iron mask on it
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Yes, and? So only Raphael can wear masks?

taffertier said:
Iron Mask, Dumas, and Raphael are all characters from the
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Who the Hell told you this? There is so character called Raphael in "The Three Musketeers", as far as I know, unless there's some weirdass minor bit player in one of the many books in the saga called Raphael for some reason. And you're thinking of the Man in the Iron mask, which is actually based on a true story. Also, there's no such character as a Dumas in the Three Musketeers saga. The author of the series is named Alexandre (not Graf) Dumas.

So... it's totally Raphael because... Alexandre Dumas wrote a book with the Man in the Iron Mask in it! You know what else Alexandre Dumas wrote? "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". There's a gypsy girl named Esmaralda in it. Viola totally looks like she could kinda be a gypsy. Viola is the gypsy girl from "Hunchback"!

taffertier said:
Same height
Same voice Actor
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1) Why are you bringing up the one thing I've already conceded as a valid argument claiming it's something I'm ignoring?
2) Why are you ignoring the fact that in English, Nightmare and Raphael are voiced by different people? And it's not like the English dub makes a habit out of having different people portray Nightmare and the person its is inhabiting; Siegfried and Nightmare shared English voice actors for Soul Calibur II.

You know who else have shared voice actors? Link and Siegfried (Nobyuki Hiyama).​
​
Ezio and Siegfried (Ezio is totally Siegfried in disguise! Or his descendant!)​
​
Identifying masked characters by their voice actors, especially when they're playing the characters entirely differently from each other (seriously, find me 5 voice clips where Raphael and Nightmare sound even the slightest similar in Japanese!) is ludicrous, considering the fact that double casting occurs all the time in voice acting because it saves money and time.​
​
You know what else is interesting? In English, Nightmare was voiced by different people in III and IV, despite the fact that there's no in-story reason for this. The same thing happened with the Japanese dub.​
​
taffertier said:
In 5 one of nightmares victory quotes is "Soul edge grant your master his wish!" When before he never said such a thing. Raphael's wish for soul edge is to make the perfect world for Amy and himself.
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That's reaching.​
​
taffertier said:
Raphael's endings for 2 and 3 he is seen dragging soul edge in it's two handed form rather than turning into a weapon familiar to him like it should for everyone. In his ending in 2 he also practically turns into nightmare with the hair and arm and everything.
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Yet we know for a fact those endings are uncannon. So who cares?!​

taffertier said:
Plus castle bat to add to that list now.
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Yes, because Graf Dumas, a Frenchman, would totally build a castle for himself and then name it Castle Bat in Hungarian. That castle was named that before Graf Dumas took residence there. Or are you saying this is totally a hint by the developers? Let's call the castle Graf Dumas is defeated in by the name "Castle Bat" in Hungarian because Raphael, a Frenchman, is kinda a vampire! Hint!
 
Kirio4 said:
Lol....is Z.W.E.I who fight him...he was defeated by ZWEI...and we dont know if Zwei kills him or not, this part on the story is a mistery
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Yah, I played through story mode once just to unlock everything. I didn't even start watching the cutscenes 'til halfway through. I misremembered.
 
Yes, yes, in retrospect, I remember that it was Z.W.E.I. who defeated and ostensibly killed Nightmare now. I actually watched that cut-scene, I just didn't care about it much.
 
Graf isn't a name, btw. As far as I know it's a title, from the way Patroklos spoke at the beginning and some later dialogue.

Raphael and Nightmare don't look "kinda similar." Their facial model is exactly the same, in a game where you have like 25 different faces to choose from in Creation Mode. Have you seen the comparison of their faces? Why didn't they just give him Facial Model #15?

Raphael appears much paler and more ghostly than SCIV. He has no memory of the past 17 years and appears to believe that no time has passed. It's actually somewhat clearer than you've portrayed the situation and your skepticism seems somewhat arbitrary.
-DC:sc5rap1:
 
The only different in Raph and Dumas is the skin´s color and the expression on the face...they have the same laugh too LOL
 

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I like speculation. Honestly, as most people do, I think Raphael seriously is Nightmare.
The obvious reasons:
1. Graf Dumas has an extra body chained up in his castle dungeon.
2. Raphael wakes up in a dungeon, according to his biography.
3. Nightmare has an alternate with a mask covering his face; (Irrelevant but it's reminiscent to the grim reaper imo.)
4. Same JPN voice actor (Yasunori Masutani).
5. Same height.
6. They only differ in skin color. Same hair, same face. And as stated above, same laughter.
7. Nightmare has a unique win pose againest Viola where he groans as if he was in pain to a certain degree. (Imo, this could mean he recognizes her blood. Amy.)
8. Nightmare's stage is called Denevér Castle."Denevér" is "Bat" in English, courtesy of Google Translate.
9. Not exactly a fact, but more of an opinion. I think making Raphael the new Nightmare gives him a new storyline; Instead of dwelling on the welfare of Amy, and/or searching for her. This also makes sense why Tira loathes the new Nightmare.
10. I've also noticed that in one of Nightmare's quotes from being victorious in battle is "Soul Edge, grant your master his wish!" This could relate to Raphael's wish for Soul Edge to create the perfect world for Amy and himself. (Remember the events of IV, featuring Marienbard and Jacqueline with Soul Calibur in the Ortheinsburg Castle Throne Room?).

Also, if that isn't enough proof, go into Creation mode; Pick Nightmare, and equip the Prayer Helm. You get a clear glimpse of his face. Only you can believe it if you want to, despite the number of factors pointing to the alternative. You do the math.
 
I didnt know of the Viola win SP pose. But yeah, there's overwhelming evidence that Raph has become the new Nightmare. I was thinking, after ZWEI beats him in Story, Raph regains some of his sanity - if only to continue finding Amy. He sheds the Azure Armor and goes on his way.
 
Maybe because this time the host body is not a living one, or because the body doesn't have a soul (acting as a ghost Raphael now) so Soul Edge keeps her last form.
 
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