Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

Still having trouble Rondo follow-ups and 3P+K follow ups. Anyway, another 34 games today with 18 wins, so in total I have 21 wins today.


EDIT: I probably should clarify what else I'm having trouble with. Basic stuff, like PP6PK, PP6K2K and her command throw 41236T and her wall command throw.

I've found that Marie Rose has an unlisted 66T back throw that functions as another offensive hold. It has the same animation as her 4T back throw and the same damage. That said, her most powerful OH is her 3T. Outside of her low punch Advanced Hold, it doesn't seem like its all that useful to use her other punch holds as they don't seem capable of reaching the same damage as a normal hold. Kinda screwy.

Feels like she's a poor-man's Bayman or Leon. Less damage, fewer string mix-ups, low damage OHs, and no real oki throw shenanigans. On the other hand, I'm not sure Bayman or Leon can bait as well as her, but they don't feel need to.
 
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Pad, since I can't do QCFs on stick anymore.

Then again, I can't do QCFs on pad either.

EDIT: 37 games and 15 wins today. Starting to practice using Marie Rose's advanced holds, although the timing is really tight, occasionally the opponent is able to block the 8K before I can get it off.

Edit2: Played another 35 games tonight, just 8 wins for the rounds. Just trying a change of style since you guys were insisting upon it. Rondo baiting doesn't seem to work, or like everything else, I'm doing it wrong.
 
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i wanna know how come Marie gets holds that do okay damage with guaranteed follow ups while Pai gets holds that do shit damage and only has 2 holds that give guaranteed followups? i heard that Marie and Pai had a lot of similarities and i agreed when she first came out. but now i don't see it at all. Marie does a LOT of damage off of pretty simple combos. i don't even play her but i know a beginner combo that's a launcher and does about 1/3 of health damage.

also i find that marie is extremely hard to slow escape from. if anyone she feels like Kokoro with guaranteed options instead of guessing constantly. (I feel like i've said this already :P)

but on another note, i've tried picking up akira. using stick like i do for Pai but unfortunately the way my joystick is (rotates on a square) i'm finding it hard to do several inputs that i can easily do on controller. but i can't do his one frame knee on controller with the way i play on pad. but i can do the knee easily on stick. so i'm conflicted. he's still fun to play though. so i've been back on Momiji. still trying to climb over that wall i hit with her that i feel is the reason people dropped her and the reason why intermediate and high level play of her is seen about as much as seeing a Ferrari driving down the road of an old town. most people just rely on her brain dead pressure (6PKK). I'd worry about finding a way to get out of it but i never see Momiji players offline. and online tactics would work fast enough i think due to the slight lag. but i want to show people that momiji is more about that repetitive string to apply pressure. i want to show people how to open up defenses with her. i want to show people how good her potential is if you adapt the right play style. but i'm gonna need more practice. will do so this saturday.


-end late night rant
 
Windstar said:
Pad, since I can't do QCFs on stick anymore.

Then again, I can't do QCFs on pad either.
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Had the same problems...but i think this is gonna help(somehow)

"I fear not the man who has practiced 10000 kicks once, but i fear the man who had practiced one kick 10000"
-Bruce Lee-

...but from my opinion if you stay stubborn enough, after a while you get a feeling to do some moves/inputs...just keep it up.
Cheers!
-A-
 
Rose and Pai are nothing alike lol. Rose is more similiar to that of Leifang, this is the first I've heard anyone say she's similiar to Pai.

But yeah, just stopping to drop a say;

Open lobby and stream are up for Team BEST lobby on XBL feel free to drop by; http://www.twitch.tv/team_best
 
37 games tonight and again, only 8 wins. It took a while before the wins came in. I was 20 matches in before my first win tonight. Afterwards they just came staggering in. I've down ranked twice tonight, now at C-.

So far nothing is working, and trying to find a new style is hard. I'm still falling for the same stupid crap and spam. Nothing is working yet, but I guess I'm just screwing up everything as usual.
 
45 games and 10 wins today. Ended up fighting some high ranking players with huge win streaks and managed to beat them rather easily (they kept holding low), so I went from C- back up to C+ pretty quickly. Though it was only two matches.

So I want to ask you guys how you deal with certain things, because I'm still having trouble developing a new style while still falling for dumb stuff.

How do you guys deal with Rachel's 1PP? Usually I just block and throw punish, but recently, players keep throwing me instead, so I eat a counter throw often. I'm using only 7 frame throws to punish.

How do you guys deal with Ryu Hayabusa's who use 9P then 8P, 8K or 8T all the time? Usually I sidestep and attempt to punish, but I always end up getting hit instead.

How do you guys deal with Hayate's 3H+KKP? I've tried to hold, but failed. I've tried to block the whole thing (and used practice mode to do it), and failed and I tried to sidestep and punish, and failed there.

How do you guys deal with Tina's and Hitomi's 1P? Normally this move hits me on normal hit, so its constantly putting the players at negative frames, but when I try to push and offense, I usually hit by a counter hit. I've tried some fast moves like P, 6P, 3K, 6K, and 4K, but nothing works.

How do you guys deal with Momiji's air throw spam? I usually try to duck, but I'm always caught by it. I've tried simple jabs too, but it hasn't worked yet.

How do you guys deal with Kasumi's who always use 66PP? I know the final hit is high, but I'm unable to step, duck or hold it whenever I try.


EDIT: Oh by the way, try this in training mode; have MR and her opponent facing back to back, next set it up so the opponent tries to strike after being thrown. Now have MR repeatedly throw. If you do it right Marie Rose will repeatedly perform the back throw and force the opponent and herself back to back, only switching sides after each throw. The opponent can't react (because its an OH) and the massive frame advantage basically allows you do repeat this throw infinitely. Of course, the throw does no damage, and the conditions have to be the opponent and MR have to both be back turned, but its interesting to see.
 
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Windstar said:
How do you guys deal with Momiji's air throw spam? I usually try to duck, but I'm always caught by it. I've tried simple jabs too, but it hasn't worked yet.
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Sidestep. Tenku T doesn't track, and the guard break from the lead-in strings do not give enough frames to make it guaranteed.

Actually, nothing from Tenku is a tracking move. Tenku K has some wacky re-tracking, but only if you're lucky.
 
Xernuht said:
Sidestep. Tenku T doesn't track, and the guard break from the lead-in strings do not give enough frames to make it guaranteed.

Actually, nothing from Tenku is a tracking move. Tenku K has some wacky re-tracking, but only if you're lucky.
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Cool, I'm actually rolling to get away from Tenku now. Occasionally catching Tenku attempts mid jump. 3H+K has a very vertical hitbox.

So some thoughts on Marie Rose after a few games and a 12/13 game win streak.

I don't think Ayane is going to be too much of a problem for her. MR's OH game is actually decent enough, or at least on par with, Bayman's and Leon's that its enough to keep Ayane honest, but that doesn't mean that Ayane will lose out on her great range. I don't think Jann Lee will be too much of an issue for MR, either. Yeah, his keep out is strong, but MR has many ways to get in, so this isn't an issue for her. I think characters with strong rushdown are going to be trouble for her, or characters that have enough fakes and mix-ups that can overwhelm her rather slow and semi-decent footsies. So I think Sarah, Pai, Zack, and Brad are going to be challenging for her to deal with. I don't thin Lei-Fang will pose too much of an issue, despite the punch focus of MR, as MR's P+K is actually quite good at shutting down a few of Lei-Fang's options. I'm not to sure on Hitomi, but I think Rig could be an issue. Christie is definitely an issue to anyone with short range like MR. I'm not too sure on anyone else yet. In general, she might have trouble with Hayabusa or Kasumi; grapplers like Tina, Bass, Bayman and Leon could be an issue too.

I think MR's great strengths lie in her ability to get in through a number of different ways and her safety. I think she's weak in the footsie department, lacks some solid mix-ups (too many slow mids, and highs, not enough good lows). Her advanced holds could be a lot better (especially her high and mid punch), her throw game is a bit weak, though she has really good throw range, I still feel it's below Kokoro's.

Anywho, I think she's a solid mid-tier character... maybe upper mid. There's nothing extraordinary about her, but she has a few strengths that are really good, and few short-comings that hurt her overall, but it doesn't feel major and it doesn't feel like she'll suffer too much. More time with her will discover what she's capable of.

Oh, and she's not linear. H+K and 4PP are generally enough to keep steppers honest.
 
0VincentRayne0 said:
i wanna know how come Marie gets holds that do okay damage with guaranteed follow ups while Pai gets holds that do shit damage and only has 2 holds that give guaranteed followups? i heard that Marie and Pai had a lot of similarities and i agreed when she first came out. but now i don't see it at all. Marie does a LOT of damage off of pretty simple combos. i don't even play her but i know a beginner combo that's a launcher and does about 1/3 of health damage.

also i find that marie is extremely hard to slow escape from. if anyone she feels like Kokoro with guaranteed options instead of guessing constantly. (I feel like i've said this already :P)

but on another note, i've tried picking up akira. using stick like i do for Pai but unfortunately the way my joystick is (rotates on a square) i'm finding it hard to do several inputs that i can easily do on controller. but i can't do his one frame knee on controller with the way i play on pad. but i can do the knee easily on stick. so i'm conflicted. he's still fun to play though. so i've been back on Momiji. still trying to climb over that wall i hit with her that i feel is the reason people dropped her and the reason why intermediate and high level play of her is seen about as much as seeing a Ferrari driving down the road of an old town. most people just rely on her brain dead pressure (6PKK). I'd worry about finding a way to get out of it but i never see Momiji players offline. and online tactics would work fast enough i think due to the slight lag. but i want to show people that momiji is more about that repetitive string to apply pressure. i want to show people how to open up defenses with her. i want to show people how good her potential is if you adapt the right play style. but i'm gonna need more practice. will do so this saturday.


-end late night rant
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Marie Rose isn't a 9 frame jabber thats plus or neutral (which is effectively plus for most of the cast) on every thing.

Pai is set up in DOA so that every action allows her to continue attacking, and to hell with whatever the enemy wants to do because it can take a backseat to her demands. Stuns after throws, okizeme pressure after hard knockdowns, advantage after block, whatever.

She doesn't get a lot of guarantees, but considering she dictates absolutely everything else, why in gods name should she?
 
Rikuto said:
Marie Rose isn't a 9 frame jabber thats plus or neutral (which is effectively plus for most of the cast) on every thing.

Pai is set up in DOA so that every action allows her to continue attacking, and to hell with whatever the enemy wants to do because it can take a backseat to her demands. Stuns after throws, okizeme pressure after hard knockdowns, advantage after block, whatever.

She doesn't get a lot of guarantees, but considering she dictates absolutely everything else, why in gods name should she?
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding.
 
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