Aluminum Foil Hat Time! Conspiracy Theories?

KingAce said:
The only thing that can ever be called truly random is human thought.
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Can you talk about this a little more?

I am actually pretty surprised to find a theist make such reasonable arguments in terms of my own ideas. They are not my views, but I am satisfied enough with your answers that I don't feel the need to deconstruct your arguments. The important thing I think is not whether you believe or not, but that you are rationalized in doing it.
 
Only 2 semester-long introductory philosophy classes and reading insomnia.ac and I can just look at this religion "debate" stuff and laugh. Not even the Amazing Atheist stuff was new to me, except for the last video which seemed to be influenced by Nietzche's essay "The Immoralist" I think it's called. He does a good job condensing a lot ideas in a small space, though.

KingAce says human thought is random... well my Ethics professor (formerly taught at Berkeley) says that moral decisions cannot be explained by the deterministic theory of free will (or whichever one says that there is no free will and that everything happens a series cause and effect like dominos).

But I argued that the brain is a system of physical parts, so it should behave the same as any other system, and that the algorithms used to make each of our decisions are developed in advance like a computer program, and that this algorithm is predictable to some degree by the laws of evolutionary theory, motives can be explained by Nietzche's "will to power" doctrine. Or something like that.

His reply? "nope, the brain is unlike anything else we know of, completely unique, far beyond our understanding," etc. No wonder this guy teaches ethics. The brain has to work somehow. There's nothing metaphysical about it, we only think that because we can't understand it.

Actually, we can never hope learn to exactly how the brain works. To learn things we create models in our mind's eye to explain things. So learning how the brain works would require us to model something in our mind's eye that is of equal complexity of the system we use to model it. That would be like fitting the brain inside itself. A system cannot create (model) a system of equal or greater complexity, so it seems to me that it's impossible to comprehend our own systems of thought.


Apophis is pretty scary. If it enters the keyhole, West Coast, Japan, and Korea are fucked. Then who will rape everyone else in videogames?
 
Many people who are interested in how the brain and mind works are focusing on artificial intelligence now for those reasons. And it's also why just as many believe that true artificial intelligence may be impossible.
 
Signia said:
Only 2 semester-long introductory philosophy classes and reading insomnia.ac and I can just look at this religion "debate" stuff and laugh. Not even the Amazing Atheist stuff was new to me
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You haven't said anything new here either. But that's not necessary just to make a good argument. I think the two main problems with theistic thinking, typically, is that believers tend to ignore how God is an unfalsifiable idea, or the fact that the root of existence (if there was one) is incomprehensible, similar to how you stated in your post. If you ignore either one of these then you're likely to believe in God. But these are just things I've noticed from experience that people don't consider, leading them to have debates.
 
let me tell you how god exists vincent. this motha fucka is a very close friend of mine. we have a special relationship. I'm going to tell you a story. and this involves him in particular. you see.. I'm the type of motha fucka to laugh at people's pain. you fall in front of me, I will laugh at you. If people hurt themselves in front of me, I will laugh at them before I ask if they're alright.

case in point, I used to work as an assistant manager at this store called LVLX, ladies should know of this store, it's like forever 21. anywho.. I was about to go on break, and there was this girl there, she looked kind of faint but I really paid it no mind. I don't give a fuck about this person, so whatever. I'm on break, enjoying taco bell and talkin to a friend of mine down in savannah, GA and I'm in Va.. when I see EMT's roll in; and being the rubber neckin motha fucka that I am.. I decided to follow them and lo and behold these motha fuckas are goin into my store and they start doin their work. meanwhile i'm on the phone with my friend and I'm like, "oh shit, EMT's are in my store!" so i ask one of my minions what happened and she told me the girl who looked faint fainted and slapped her head against the shoe shelf as she fell. and gave the sound effect SPLAT! just as they were pushin her out.. and I busted out laughin so loud.. so hard.. that people from the other side of springfield mall were comin into investigate the laughter. and my friend swore to me that this girl probably heard me deep in her subconscious, and that god will punish me for this transgression. and I replied yeah whatever, god probably just going slap me on the wrist and say bad berto! and we shrug it off and move on with our lives. to which my friend said okay.. you say that. watch what happens. now be ready.. because this is a story. get your ass a drink.. some chips.. and read on..


WATCH WHAT HAPPENS INDEED!

so later on, I'm planning a trip to savannah, god hasn't punished me yet and I'm like whatever, I got things to do/ like go to savannah. and if he hasn't punished me yet, i don't think he would punish me at all. I mean he got other shit to do, you know? he's a busy man. Let's not get this twisted because I'm not talkin about his son neither. I'm talkin about the man himself. that's dog spelled backwards. anyway, so here we are, about to go to savannah. right? packed up the Lex. went downstairs to the basement to make sure everything is straight...then decided to jump up the stairs. well.. I jumped, my feet never left the floor, and i head a very quick simple, "phwoop" sound on my lower back.. and already I was like that can't be right. and sure enough, each step i took became increasingly far more painful. to the point where when i finally made it up to the top of them steps. my back gave out on me.. and I was on the floor. I was in too much pain. at this point, my son otherwise considered as my dog.. young goo; bless his soul and rest in peace, daddy loves and misses ya, did something he never did before... he came up to me.. got on my back while i was in pain.. and decided to use my back as a bed. HE NEVER DID THIS SHIT BEFORE! NEVER! right? first time for everything i guess. but anyway.. my step father walks by, sees us lying there.. and he chuckles. he asked me why am I laid out. I told him. he asked me if I still wanted to go to Savannah. and I said I'm a man of my word. I told these folks i'm going to go.. and by god.. i will be going! That's my pride at work. one of the seven deadlys... If I was like you know what? you right. i should just relax and go some other time, this may have been a different story. but i'm a hard headed fuck. I get set in my way i'm not budgin. so he slapped some Icyhot on my back and off I made it to the car and off I went.

so there I was, on the road, back in pain and I decided to make a stop over at Potomac Mills, I forget the reason, but I stopped there.. and my back was screamin at me, "The fuck are you doin?" well.. I go. i made my purchase can't recollect what exactly but I know I bought something.. and i'm back on the road on I-95 S.. headed for savannah.. and another thing that never happened before happens yet again.. I'm just about to reach N. Carolina... and I need to piss. Usually, my bowels don't act up on the road and my bladder was able to stay good until i reached "South of the Border" an amusement park between S and north carolina. that's usually when I just fill up for Gas as well. But I need to piss now. so I pull off into the community welcome center, and I just pull into the parkin lot. my back is in horrible pain.. I'm loathe to go out there, but I need to piss. so what do i do? I gauge the distance from my car to that bathroom.. and finally I say fuck it.. man the fuck up berto. let's the do the damn thing. so i get out the car. and I almost fall right there.. my legs were crumpling up... I rested my back against the lex... got my footing and slowly... SLOWLY.. made my way to that bathroom. each pain inducing step... wretched children giggling as they energetically run by. parents giving me strange looks.. BUT NO ONE HELPING ME! finally, I make it to the bathroom. I piss.. and I curse god.. I said you motha fucka.. this is your punishment to me? an injured back? THIS IS THE BEST YOU GOT FOR A PUNISHMENT?! YOU GOIN HURT MY BACK CAUSE I LAUGHED AT SOME BITCH WAY BACK?! I GOT YOUR PUNK ASS! so I finish my business... I wash my hands... and look back out at my lex... I gotta walk back.. i briefly rest by a garbage can... one with the cover, not an open one... and I slowly make my way back.. everything I did.. screamed "it hurts" at me.. I get to my car.. slowly get in... rest for a minute.. then I'm back on the road.

comes the halfway mark.. I reached South of the border.. I had a little more gas then usual because i filled up at Potomac mills so I drive on past and after a couple of miles pull off into a gas stop and now we're at a very interesting turn point.. driving for so long in one position your body eventually gets used to the pain. It hurts but it's tolerable. well i got into that gas station i was reminded how much Pain i was in.. sitting down for so long made me used to it.. standing up again.. reminded me.. owwy.. and sure enough I didn't even make it to the door before I was on the concrete laid out flat.. similar to how I was back at my house in VA. well... another guy fillin up look down at me and asked..

"are you alright?" To which I replied "no, I'm not." but he didn't help me.. so i thought then why the fuck would you ask a dumb ass question like that if you're not planning on helpin me. I slowly come to grips with my pain. stand back up. and make my way to the door. there's this guy standing right beside it and I didn't know if it was a pull or push door yet so i said you can go ahead first to the guy.. and he looks at me.. and casually replies, no you got it, man. go right in. I don't think i even looked at him... I was appalled.. here I am, in pain... saw me laid out back there.. and he can't even open the door for me.. so I go in.. but instead of going to the counter, I made my way slowly to the bathroom.. using the aisles and glass fridge doors as helpers to help take some of the weight off my back... give me some support. I make it to the bathroom. need to take a piss but my back hurt too much. took some toilet paper, spread it around the seat. sat my ass down.. and pissed sittin down. finished... but I was like how the fuck will i stand up? more over, how will i get my pants up... ah.... good question. fun answer. I forgot to lock the door. some kid decided to open the door. we saw each other.. I jumped up while pulling up my pants and he slammed door shut.. I locked it.. was about to turn to wash my hands.. but my legs give out on me.. and all of a sudden, I'm kneeling in front of a toilet bowl, and my hands are clasped in prayer over the seat. I said to myself.. "oh this is just rich." I manage to stand back up... manage to walk out and make my way to the counter.. the lady behind it is giving me a strange look.. I prepay for my gas... and humbly ask for a broom I could use for a walking stick.

she said no.

I asked her why.
she said i might steal it.
I asked her why would I steal a broom?
she said she doesn't know me.
I told her, my back is in pain you saw how I came up here. I need a broom to help me back to my car. otherwise could you come with me to my car so i can fill up my gas and have some support as I go.
she said no. that's odd, why would you ask that?
I said cause my back is in pain.
so she finally lets me borrow a broom stick, and I make my way back to my car..

as I was heading back to my car... my back suddenly threatens to give out again.. and i stand there gripping the broom stick for dear life.. but as I stand there.. this car filled with women pull in to my left... and they stop the car and all i heard through my pain was laughter. as they continued to laugh my pain slowly started to subside. my body must be getting accustomed to the pain again, and I made it back to the wip.. and the pain was tolerable again. I was able to walk back twirling the stick in my hand, and I was able to easily hand to the cashier. and was able to walk back with tolerable pain. I get in the car, I drive off and made the final leg of the journey with relative ease.

It was during this leg of the trip, i contemplated what exactly was my punishment. And I as I came to my conclusion, I realized how clever god really is.. a huge sense of humor this guy has... it wasn't the pain.. no it was just the set up.. the punishment was the laughter. Chances are they weren't laughing at me at all.. then again, they might have been. who knows for sure? but the fact of hearing the laughter and being helpless to do anything about it... to know what it feels like. That was my punishment. hella clever this guy is.. and then when I finally make it to my friend's house in savannah.. my friend offers me a seat... and I said no, I'd rather stand, because if i sit down.. i don't think i could get up... he said nonsense berto, you'll be okay. have a seat. 5 minutes later, he says, berto i'm gettin kinda hungry lets go to micky d's. and I said "insert friend's name here. I can't get up" and he was like whatever man I'll help you up. and i hold out my hand to him and he gently grabs it and ever so gently begins to pull and as he does this.. the weirdest, most painfilled, whimper I ever made came out my mouth and he, and his roommate.. held in their laughter. We eventually make it Micky D's. and after I recounted this story to him, and we had our brief conversation on god's fitting punishment and how interesting god can be...

he asked me..
so did I learn my lesson?

to which i replied..
yeah, but fuck If i'm going to change, I'm still going to laugh if people hurt themselves in front of me. I told you! me and god have a special relationship! we're like this! *crosses fingers*

so this is how you know god exists. you can call it an odd coincidence, you can call it karma, whatever.. I can tell you right now, that dude wouldn't have it any other way. mainly because, who the fuck are you that he needs to prove anything to you? I know god. I'm well acquainted with that dude. he's the most chill motha fucka you'll ever meet, he's also one of the best teachers you'll ever meet and I'm blessed that this motha fucka is in my life.. I don't see god as someone to follow. this dude? he's the best walkin companion. and whether you believe in him or not, it doesn't bother him one bit. I don't mean to be speakin for the man, because he don't need me to speak for him. but I can tell you right now.. that dude is there, and that's my dude.
 
^^ LoL

Pretty sure your just taking something coincidentle and making it into "Punishment" in your head.

P.S. your dude, is your conciousness
 
It's a cool story, and I also laughed at the same part you described yourself laughing. I would call it a coincidence, yes. It's also clear you already believed in God before your friend said you were going to get punished. Then you were looking for what that punishment was going to be. Then something happens and you're ready to connect the two, proof that fits your idea of God, but not proof of God...'cause it's not like you can define him in any sort of way that can be measured within the real world or nature.
 
like i said homie..

he wouldn't have it any other way. I can assure you he's not stressing about it. you just need to know..
me and god.. we're like this *crosses fingers*. whether you believe or not. I'm not gonna force you. you do what you want.
I shouldn't be speaking for the man. like i said, if he wanted you to know, he would have done something about it by now.
therefore it stands to reason, that he honestly doesn't give a fuck whether you think he's real or not. I know that muh fucka. he know me.
we got that good shit goin. we aint' about followin. we about that walk son. we walk together.

this isn't belief by the way. this is knowing. you can call it delusional if you like because I know what it sound like. Pero mira.. not only have i talked with angels. and am tight with god. muh fuckas hear/read this shit and think I'm crazy. hallucinations and delusions.

and i say madnis nigga. I don't say i'm this shit for no fuckin reason. I dont' call myself madnis cause I think it's some cool shit to say. shit is real. madnis nigga. fuck what you heard. it's what you readin. the shit is real. call it whatever you like but belief. cause it's far from belief. it's to the point of knowing my nig. let me ask you something boy.. define luck. cause I know i'm a lucky motha fucka.. how am I lucky? cause i'm blessed my nigga. cause of my relationship with god. told you. we tight. *cross fingers*

when shit happens.. off rip.. and muh fuckas are like yo how the fuck that happen? i simply reply.. cause i'm roberto. shit pops off. cause i'm roberto. THAT'S LUCK motha fucka. i can walk up into a store, slap a bitch and win the god damn lottery of that store and not a damn bad thing happen to me cause i'm roberto. walk into a concert. niggas just hand me a ticket. free entry got damn. off rip. CAUSE I'M ROBERTO!

look at madnis my nig gettin down on that tirade. DON'T GET ME STARTED GOT DAMN!

have all kinds of fucked up shit happen to me. and I swear somethin wrong with me.. walk into a hospital, get checked out.. and am the picture of health got damn. a walkin got damn contradiction! had a centimeter gall stone in me last year.. no surgery cause the shit is gone. doctor stumped. asked how the fuck that happen. i said cause i'm roberto. madnis bitch. slapped her in her left titty and bounced up out that bitch.

fuck what you heard. god is my nigga got damn! and if you wanna say the nigga not there.. and he ain't goin stop you. why should i got damn? GO ON AND DO YOU GOT DAMN!

and oh! by the by.. if you really want to get down to it.. it's not conscioussness. or conscience.. it's enlightenment. self enlightenment to be exact. I know exactly where i stand. how to maintain my homeostasis. and maintain the fact that i'm a motha fuckin genius.
 
Madnis said:
like i said homie..

he wouldn't have it any other way. I can assure you he's not stressing about it. you just need to know..
me and god.. we're like this *crosses fingers*. whether you believe or not. I'm not gonna force you. you do what you want.
I shouldn't be speaking for the man. like i said, if he wanted you to know, he would have done something about it by now.
therefore it stands to reason, that he honestly doesn't give a fuck whether you think he's real or not. I know that muh fucka. he know me.
we got that good shit goin. we aint' about followin. we about that walk son. we walk together.

this isn't belief by the way. this is knowing. you can call it delusional if you like because I know what it sound like. Pero mira.. not only have i talked with angels. and am tight with god. muh fuckas hear/read this shit and think I'm crazy. hallucinations and delusions.

and i say madnis nigga. I don't say i'm this shit for no fuckin reason. I dont' call myself madnis cause I think it's some cool shit to say. shit is real. madnis nigga. fuck what you heard. it's what you readin. the shit is real. call it whatever you like but belief. cause it's far from belief. it's to the point of knowing my nig. let me ask you something boy.. define luck. cause I know i'm a lucky motha fucka.. how am I lucky? cause i'm blessed my nigga. cause of my relationship with god. told you. we tight. *cross fingers*

when shit happens.. off rip.. and muh fuckas are like yo how the fuck that happen? i simply reply.. cause i'm roberto. shit pops off. cause i'm roberto. THAT'S LUCK motha fucka. i can walk up into a store, slap a bitch and win the god damn lottery of that store and not a damn bad thing happen to me cause i'm roberto. walk into a concert. niggas just hand me a ticket. free entry got damn. off rip. CAUSE I'M ROBERTO!

look at madnis my nig gettin down on that tirade. DON'T GET ME STARTED GOT DAMN!

have all kinds of fucked up shit happen to me. and I swear somethin wrong with me.. walk into a hospital, get checked out.. and am the picture of health got damn. a walkin got damn contradiction! had a centimeter gall stone in me last year.. no surgery cause the shit is gone. doctor stumped. asked how the fuck that happen. i said cause i'm roberto. madnis bitch. slapped her in her left titty and bounced up out that bitch.

fuck what you heard. god is my nigga got damn! and if you wanna say the nigga not there.. and he ain't goin stop you. why should i got damn? GO ON AND DO YOU GOT DAMN!
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ROFL slapped her in her left titty... GOLDEN sounds like some shit I would say...

I talk to god like hes my friend at times too, still never seen/heard/felt him though...(Other than what my brain appeared to make me see/hear/feel) Therefore he isnt real to me, just some imaginary friend I have chats with at times.

and Yea your high if your talking with angels. LoL Specially if you sayin nigga and mofucka and got damn every other word. You might be talking with demons disguised as angels ;) LoL
 
and no.. madnis is not. on drugs right now. clear state of mind. and feeling refreshed. that's how i roll my nig. damn i'm ready to do some work. but i gotta go to sleep. my actions right now are caused by the fact

that i'm sleep deprived. and my annual spring cold is here. therefore i have a headache. but my brain counteracts this by releasing a lot of endorphins... yay! and when i sleepy i get energetic.

PAY ME NO NEVERMIND!

but yes. i have talked with angels. and a demon. now this motha fucka... i can tell you stories about this nigga. this dude.. is a cool ass dude. he's the most laid back. chill motha fucka. right? and he taught me how to manipulate folks. cause it break down.. the human psyche can get rather predictable. you learn your mark. you learn how he'll react. and people only ever react one of two ways. postively.. or negatively... once you find out their patterns...

it's a wrap. you can then begin to influence them.. using their own choice against them. and you really did nothing.. because it was all them. how fuckin g is that?

that's why that lil demon was cool. you can see the lil motha fucka as my mascot...

that's that madnis right there.
 
Madnis said:
and no.. madnis is not. on drugs right now. clear state of mind. and feeling refreshed. that's how i roll my nig. damn i'm ready to do some work. but i gotta go to sleep. my actions right now are caused by the fact

that i'm sleep deprived. and my annual spring cold is here. therefore i have a headache. but my brain counteracts this by releasing a lot of endorphins... yay!
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lOl Didnt say right now... Said when your talking to angels and god.
 
Madnis said:
like i said, if he wanted you to know, he would have done something about it by now.
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Hopefully it's not something lame where I have to decide if I was just too lucky for this to be coincidence, and then assume it's God instead. I don't think it's too much to ask for direct contact with the big man.
 
funny story

but you said it took a while for you to be punished... how long were you planning on waiting? was getting injured at some point in time in the future automatically supposed to divine punishment?

Or do you think it has to God because of the laughter? I don't find it very unlikely that you found some people to laugh at you considered you traveled around and met many people. No surprise nobody helped you, and no surprise some bitches were laughing at you using a broom as a cane. Lol @ the cashier not letting you borrow it at first, that shit would never happen to a white guy.
 
@RD oh.. well hot damn... hot damn indeed.

@S I wasn't really waiting. i had things to do. see.. you make it sound as if i sat there patiently waiting for this nigga to show up and say aight berto... time to catch your punishment. hold that. god can do whatever the fuck he wants. just like you or I can. he was doin his thing. i was doin mine. and it wasn't the back that was said punishment. now.. think for a second. if you're a teacher. you really want to teach your child a lesson as well as punish them... when do you think would be the best time to do it? *coming to america voice..* ahhhh-haaaa....... but i won't lie, up until that point whenever I talked with my friend from savannah I would always tell em.. see? god ain't goin do shit to me. he ain't punish me yet! ha! and I told him before and after punishment.. that I was still going to laugh at muh fuckas who hurt themselves in front of me. it's not like this punishment would change shit.

and in reality.. it was my pride and stubbornness that was my downfall. pay attention to the story teller now. if you goin read the story. PAY ATTENTION!

@Vin better question is... why even look or care for that proof of existence? why should it matter so much? say god does show himself to you. what would you do? what would you say to him? even ask him? would you ask him anything besides the stupid/mundane cliche shit that everybody tends to ask him? or would you sit down and politic with him. would you ask for his advice? what would you gain from his proof of existence?
 
Signia said:
Actually, we can never hope learn to exactly how the brain works. To learn things we create models in our mind's eye to explain things. So learning how the brain works would require us to model something in our mind's eye that is of equal complexity of the system we use to model it. That would be like fitting the brain inside itself. A system cannot create (model) a system of equal or greater complexity, so it seems to me that it's impossible to comprehend our own systems of thought.
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this is an interesting theory, but it is philosophical chutzpah if you ask me. have we not built machines that can beat the grandmasters of chess? can we not clone a human brain? i can sit back and teach someone how to do cervy 3>g>323b+g iCT, yet i can't do it myself to save my life. i think we can certainly design things that are better, faster, smarter, and more complicated than any individual brain.

like much of the religious debate, it is only a matter of doing it and figuring out how. to say that we "just can't" is a cop-out-easy-answer for those who don't wish to seek anything more.
 
lobo said:
this is an interesting theory, but it is philosophical chutzpah if you ask me. have we not built machines that can beat the grandmasters of chess? can we not clone a human brain? i can sit back and teach someone how to do cervy 3>g>323b+g iCT, yet i can't do it myself to save my life. i think we can certainly design things that are better, faster, smarter, and more complicated than any individual brain.

like much of the religious debate, it is only a matter of doing it and figuring out how. to say that we "just can't" is a cop-out-easy-answer for those who don't wish to seek anything more.
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Yeah I'm really not completely sold on this idea, I'm extrapolating on other similar ideas here. It might be possible, we've already been able to model 100 neurons or something like that (there are much much more than that), so given enough time, maybe. I'm not convinced we've designed anything as complex as the human brain, though. Conciousness is pretty complex.
 
lobo said:
this is an interesting theory, but it is philosophical chutzpah if you ask me. have we not built machines that can beat the grandmasters of chess? can we not clone a human brain? i can sit back and teach someone how to do cervy 3>g>323b+g iCT, yet i can't do it myself to save my life. i think we can certainly design things that are better, faster, smarter, and more complicated than any individual brain.

like much of the religious debate, it is only a matter of doing it and figuring out how. to say that we "just can't" is a cop-out-easy-answer for those who don't wish to seek anything more.
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How can we design something more complicated than the human brain? The human brain is what comes up with these "designs" in the first place...

I dont think we will ever be able to fully replicate the human brain. Think of all the things your brain controls at once. Without you even noticeing. Your sight, taste, touch, hearing, and smell. Your breathing, your heartbeat, your conciousness, your stomach, your bowels, your bladder, basicly your whole body.

Do you think we could create something to do all this without even telling it to? The brain regulates these things without even trying... I dont think we could ever replicate that, Your brain also dictates what your moods/emotions. How can we duplicate what makes a human angry/sad/happy? When we are all different.

We might be able to clone one, but who knows if it would actually work like its supposed to.
 
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