Nightmare's Movelist Changes and Move Speculation Thread

wait... so if 3A+B has become 1B, then where did the original 1B go? it's still around, but what's the new command?

edit: just watched the daishi stream part 3

stuff of note,
@19:34, during GS, there's a green flash, i've seen this twice now, not entirely sure what it does.
@20:58 crazy wall combo, CH 4KK > 4KK > 3(B) NSS bA > ground slam BE, this combo does not work in SC4 since the 2nd 4KK does not let you launch with 3B
@51:45 whiffed K into CE, does this mean CE command is bufferable? since it comes out so damn fast.
 
Vlaster said:
4K BE in NH = OMG!! supposing its still 15 frames
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Counterhit GS A? Yes please.

Tiamat said:
I don't call ducking extremely predictable throws "spacing." Daishi gave him no reason to NOT duck at close range cause all he was doing was 6A/6K/throw
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I was talking mainly about the earlier 2 rounds. Daishi should have had a crouch set up at the point you were talking about but I don't think he was playing super serious; he was using so many shenanigans throughout the stream to show potential of the character. It seems like you have to be creative with Nightmare.

On another topic; Im going to have to write down some of the stuff for the CE. The set-ups seem pretty complicated cause you have to make note of what your opponent is thinking to increase your success rate.

Im hopeful. Im trying to get some opinion from Keev at the moment. Is anyone able to get in contact with him? Could you do so?
 
I had a chance to test Nightmare at NEC, and I can confirm most of what page has.

A+K is gone, aB is moved, bA (from standing, not side stance) is gone, Terror Charge is gone. Looks like the midscreen combo is now WR [B ] A+B GS K BE which looks epic.

Can't really say much more than that as I didn't play that many matches with him.
 
hteng said:
@19:34, during GS, there's a green flash, i've seen this twice now, not entirely sure what it does.
@20:58 crazy wall combo, CH 4KK > 4KK > 3(B) NSS bA > ground slam BE, this combo does not work in SC4 since the 2nd 4KK does not let you launch with 3B
@51:45 whiffed K into CE, does this mean CE command is bufferable? since it comes out so damn fast.
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- 19:34, Patroklos attempts a GI
- 20:58, the ground pound BE isn't a combo, but seems like it's good for wakeup in general because it seems either the quake stun or the hit tracks rollers. However, you see in the same vs Leixia match that after NSS bA airhit, Leixia can roll to the side once and get up fast enough to jump over the quake stun with an attack (okizeme after NSS bA airhit was never that good anyways).
 
Vlaster said:
4K BE in NH = OMG!! supposing its still 15 frames
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It is 17 frames in SC4. Should be useful to have a fast, damaging mid from standing even if it is unsafe.

Engared said:
I was talking mainly about the earlier 2 rounds. Daishi should have had a crouch set up at the point you were talking about but I don't think he was playing super serious; he was using so many shenanigans throughout the stream to show potential of the character. It seems like you have to be creative with Nightmare.
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I was talking about the match as a whole, he really only did highs at close range. I agree that you have to be creative with Nightmare though. Probably moreso than SC4.
 
More changes.

Old 4b is gone. 4bb is now old 44bb. bA is now something like 6b+k. There's no new GS move. What you're seeing is people trying to do GS a+b and getting GS -> wrA. New 4a is slow, but it has some deceptive range. If it's reasonably safe then I think it'll have uses.

Out of all the playable characters Nightmare was the most fun. Unless Xiba is something super special, or one of the unannounced characters catches my eye, I'll stick with Nightmare.
 
page said:
There's no more aB, which annoyed me because I like that move.

The new 2a is nice. Fast enough, even if the range and damage are meh.
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According to keev aB's input was changed to 6B in the PGW build. Its still around to say the least, unless it was taken out in that build for some reason.

Didn't we have the same 2A in SCIV? I don't remember it being that useful though maybe it was sped up.

Also I see the new 2B+K BE not being too useful once people get used to it. Once people learn to recognize it, they should be able to easily jump over the quake. Though it might be decent as a metered whiff punish if 33B BE has problem offaxis, or as a techtrap tool.
 
If freaking 4K BE is i15, there you have your follow up for B+G wall splat.

Also 3A2A is still in the game with 3A recovering faster because of less neg frames.
 
Schneider-X said:
According to keev aB's input was changed to 6B in the PGW build. Its still around to say the least, unless it was taken out in that build for some reason.

Didn't we have the same 2A in SCIV? I don't remember it being that useful though maybe it was sped up.

Also I see the new 2B+K BE not being too useful once people get used to it. Once people learn to recognize it, they should be able to easily jump over the quake. Though it might be decent as a metered whiff punish if 33B BE has problem offaxis, or as a techtrap tool.
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2B+K has scary deceptive range and it seems to catch rollers quite significantly. I think that its part of NM's new low arsenal and will be extremely deadly with Nightmare's insane cancel fake game (B+KG into 2B+K BE, 4A, 4BB mix-up etc) on wake-up. And don't forget it will have its uses if its a must-block from certain situations, especially if the positive frames given is in the +4~+6 region.

Im looking to use it in GS mix-ups at certain distances or stepping out of block range at the last moment and doing the ground hit. What will be interesting is if the normal 2B+K is a mid rather than a special mid...(Manical laughter).
 
speaking of B+G wall splat, does the 2 A+B followup still work? would be awesome for meter building.
edit: nvm, i recall seeing it work.

also, i've seen several CH GS As in the vids but no one has attempted to follow up with 4KK, does this combo still work?
 
ch gs a, 4kk still works.

It's pretty obvious that Nightmare will have multiple combo choices in most situations, divided between meter building, damage, or distance/ring outs. Choosing which to do and when will probably be a big part of his game.
 
page said:
ch gs a, 4kk still works.

It's pretty obvious that Nightmare will have multiple combo choices in most situations, divided between meter building, damage, or distance/ring outs. Choosing which to do and when will probably be a big part of his game.
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Is Nightmare much safer in your opinion?

Cause no one was punishing the obviously unsafe stuff from SC4 so it seems that he was much safer.
 
Probably not. In fact, there were some spacing issues because of how fast characters can move. Not as bad as what Natsu has, but a few traps didn't work as well.

On block there's stuff like his 44a that looks pretty safe at some ranges, but I doubt his old stuff is much safer than it was.

Keep in mind that it was a bunch of pad players forced to use sticks, either for the first time in years or the first time ever, and with a new game.

He has a fair number of break attacks that help. Break attacks are so much better than they were in Soulcalibur 4.

And depending on how reliable his CE ends up being it could be possible to make opponents very afraid to take shots at him. Kind of how Vader can be played right now.
 
i believe people are just being unfamiliar with the new game or whatnot, but yea NM seems to get away with way too many stuff. I'm crossing my fingers though, once the frame data's out, we'll see how safe he really is.

though i like some of the new shenanigans he's got, like whiffing a 66A then go into GS B for a meaty counter hit/combo or whiffing a move intentionally and follow by CE, catch lots of people off guard.
 
The push back on most moves should keep him safer (especially 3AA) But the way Daishi was attacking made it seem like he was actually safe. So if moves which logically should be safe are safe now (such as slower moves) then Nightmare should be a force. He also was not being punished by BB or 2A as much which used to be his bane (So fingers crossed).
 
Schneider-X said:
According to keev aB's input was changed to 6B in the PGW build. Its still around to say the least, unless it was taken out in that build for some reason.

Didn't we have the same 2A in SCIV? I don't remember it being that useful though maybe it was sped up.
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I'm pretty sure I saw 6B in these stream vids somewhere or other. 2A looks the same as SC4. The "new" FC A might be faster though.
 
It certainly felt faster.

One of his clean hit moves is 6k. Not big damage, but it's nice to have.
 
I might be getting ahold of the Xiba demo on the 21st to the 23rd so if you guys want me to test anything with Nightmare, please tell me.
 
I am pretty certain you know what to test for.

But I am curious about 3B into BEGSK, since like it appeared they nerfed NSSbA ringout and wall carry range.
So I am curious about 3B launch into both BE GSK and iaga. And of course tech traps.
 
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