Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

which move are you talking about ?

if its his 66BK(BE) then yeah I haven't figured out a way to consistently beat it. You can backdash and guard, but the problem is you actually make the mixup you get after blocking it worse because you're farther away.

Btw: I like 9A a way to limit the opponent's option from stepping/8wring, and i'd imagine 44AB to be just as good (feels shorter range though)
 
Go to creation mode take nightmare do your own costume and you will see familiar face, a face of Raphael so wtf? is Nightamre a Raphel? or what?
 
darkfender said:
As you know, leixia has a BE (wsBE i suppose) that evade everything i use to call panic button, that leads to huge damage.
Its an absurd move that shouldn t even exist, it GI 2A, evades high and vertical attacks and so on.

Well if you expect that just go for A+B,A it will stop the move while not beeing too risky.
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2A early enough will hit before the GI window on Leixia's WS B EX. Lows will hit her out of this, and the attack itself is slow enough to be beaten by throws. It's her best move no doubt, and it is used as a panic button, but it's certainly not without it's counters. You can also commit to a quick step, and walk around behind her reliably for a free back throw or 66B.

This game in general requires that you really commit to your moves, since everything from backdashing to guarding carries some form of risk. This is part of why Raph can find ways to account for his seemingly weak step killing moves. Every time they step, they're leaving themselves vulnerable to something.

As far as Raph not keeping up in terms of damage, he may not have the big 100 damage combos, but find me someone else with an easy i12 CH confirm into 60+ damage, or someone that can safely tap people on the head with 22b from a range where the opponent can't retaliate. Prep/SE are just supplementary mixup tools, not his primary offense. People aren't getting that yet, since Prep/SE was so effective in the early weeks.

I'm not sure what Xiba move we're talking about, but he's kind of a dick lol. I think 3B,K and 3B into stance is the biggest problem he poses to Raph. That being said, each of those options out of stance, plus the standard K ender still has a hard counter, and can be punished. The damage off those punishes are irrelevant, you're showing the Xiba player that you aren't gonna let him throw out 3B shenanigans for free.


I don't wanna post this and get "wahhhh maxi damage" in response. Look at what Saitoh is doing, a LOT of that applies to any character, including Raph.

EDIT: ooh he made a Pyrrha one too, top tiers on blast lol.

Something to note, one of Raph's strengths is punishing moves with pushback on block. So really, we don't need to JG that super if we don't want to, 3B should reach and punish where Maxi's i16 punisher would whiff. Know your i16 punishes, and PRACTICE them too, you have to be much faster with punishes in this game than in past games, it seems.
 
JodorowskyVIII said:
Nothing mid-screen and it can't Ring Out even on CH.
3A Wall splat on Counter Hit, so you can combo after it with "A+BA, 66A+B".
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Keep in mind though that 3A on CH makes 3b unsteppable, not guaranteed but they can't move. So it puts you A) at a huge frame advantage, and B) at his best range.
 
shoorykezu said:
Go to creation mode take nightmare do your own costume and you will see familiar face, a face of Raphael so wtf? is Nightamre a Raphel? or what?
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The previous Nightmare is gone. Soul Edge has since possessed Raph for the last 17 years and his soul is technically dead. The Raph character in this game is a ghost, while the Nightmare character is the Soul Edge inside what used to be Raph's body.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
........
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fuuuu yesterday practiced to punish that move....but i forgot again the commands
I didn t manage, but even if i could without interrupting the string the guard damage is too huge to even compensate with a 6BB.

So far i tested repeatedly:
6BB (whiffs obviously being a TS)
2A simultaneous hit
backdash or QS any direction, no success..
i11 AA stops the string


then i took a random character and got maxi (well not that i can use him) and while playing i evaded it with a move wich dashed straight ahead.
It was late so i couldn t try annymore but maybe a step forward could evade the second part of the string (it also makes sense seeing the animation).
 
It's too bad Raph's best neutral low is throw
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This is true for most of the cast. Calibur has moved away from the mid / low mixup, with more emphasis on the step / hori mixup so throw more. No, even more than you are now...throw a lot, the expected damage off even a broken throw is better than the expected damage off of anything else you have. Run up throw / Run up 66B / 3A / 1K mixup is decent mind games.
 
piggy said:
This is true for most of the cast. Calibur has moved away from the mid / low mixup, with more emphasis on the step / hori mixup so throw more. No, even more than you are now...throw a lot, the expected damage off even a broken throw is better than the expected damage off of anything else you have. Run up throw / Run up 66B / 3A / 1K mixup is decent mind games.
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11K and 33B are scary.

The real annoying thing is 11K is reactable if expected having the qs involved -.-
AB is not bad also....
I love how most people answer with 2A after eating AB :)
 
33B on CH can do ridiculous amounts of damage if you score the full A+BA on grounded hits (i'm talking 65+).

However, i'm willing to take a hit to that if it means that it was more reliable (ie: it wont only work on 99B and not 33B).
 
darkfender said:
11K and 33B are scary.

The real annoying thing is 11K is reactable if expected having the qs involved -.-
AB is not bad also....
I love how most people answer with 2A after eating AB :)
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11K and 1B have similar animations with the hop forward. Input a 8WR buffer, and then do 1B, and bam. Instant mixup. 1B hits grounded at a lot of angles too, as an added bonus.

There's characters in this game that are jealous as hell of a move like 11K, believe me. Advantage on hit, tracks step well, does enough damage to not be subject to end game scaling, etc etc etc. 11K is dope on it's own, adding a similar looking mid in 1B just sweetens the deal.
 
piggy said:
This is true for most of the cast. Calibur has moved away from the mid / low mixup, with more emphasis on the step / hori mixup so throw more. No, even more than you are now...throw a lot, the expected damage off even a broken throw is better than the expected damage off of anything else you have. Run up throw / Run up 66B / 3A / 1K mixup is decent mind games.
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KowtowRobinson said:
Keep in mind though that 3A on CH makes 3b unsteppable, not guaranteed but they can't move. So it puts you A) at a huge frame advantage, and B) at his best range.
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3A is sick.

KowtowRobinson said:
11K and 1B have similar animations with the hop forward. Input a 8WR buffer, and then do 1B, and bam. Instant mixup. 1B hits grounded at a lot of angles too, as an added bonus.
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That kick is legit zoning. Anticipating free frames (i.e., not pushing buttons) , 11K basically screws them , and 1B as a KND gives you credibility . Both can shut up absentminded stepping.
I thought of this guessing game too, and tried setting it up in certain places, but I am doubtful of its useability vs. people with good BB. When I can get beautiful spacing and backdash until they expect it there, and they start responding to that, then sure; but it's really hard to do that.
I'm missing an ingredient to cook this right.
 
I'm getting good in using Prep4. Setting this as a go to response after entering prep badly (in block or whiff) is a good thing, specially if you have gauge for the K(BE). I think this was said before. I'm just saying Im actually getting it to work. And it was hard to get used to it. SE is so tempting.
 
Mandritti said:
I thought of this guessing game too, and tried setting it up in certain places, but I am doubtful of its useability vs. people with good BB. When I can get beautiful spacing and backdash until they expect it there, and they start responding to that, then sure; but it's really hard to do that.
I'm missing an ingredient to cook this right.
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I usually just do it on oki, where they can't BB. If they're getting up with WR attacks, then they're opening themselves up to some other mess, like 66a+b. If they're rolling to get away from 66a+b, then 11K catches this reliably.

To be honest, I don't force the low/mid too often in neutral situations in this game. If they're standing still, they're eating guard damage from mids. If they're sidestepping, I've got other ways of handling that. If you feel like 11K will work in these situations against a particular opponent, then go for it. But I usually just save that for oki, I feel it's strongest here.
 
i personally use prep4 only as a spacing tool when i expect opponent to attack.
4 and SE if mixed together can work in many matchups.


P.S: the xiba string that give me problems is 6BK etc etc....
unsteppable, and 2A will go for simultaneous hit yet you already get guard raped from first hit and suffer damage you cannot afford.
I know JG would help, but i still have problems with it :| maybe it can be evaded running forward before second hit? or its there any way to punish it?
 
I think if they delay you can 6B, but if they delay that may not work? Not sure, may have time to test later.

darkfender - did you see a lot of WGC matches? I watched some of the team battles but haven't yet watched anything else (and I don't know if the archive is / will be available to watch) and didn't see any jG from WGC - was this used a lot? Did anyone else see WGC to shed some light on the topic?
 
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