Siegfried Q&A / General Discussion

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Sandman said:
Is 22_88ka:2A a viable low offline?
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It's i32 so definitely seeable, but you should always test balls on this kind of thing. It's also only -15, so you can use it to bait things like Nightmare's WR (B) (which is i16 and is commonly used to punish lows) and punish the punish attempt.

Solo said:
It's +2 on hit and no too easy to react to. You just have to know when to throw it out.
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+3 according to the wiki, although I'm not inclined to trust Sieg's wiki as a reliable source of information.
 
Slade said:
It's i32 so definitely seeable, but you should always test balls on this kind of thing. It's also only -15, so you can use it to bait things like Nightmare's WR (B) (which is i16 and is commonly used to punish lows) and punish the punish attempt.



+3 according to the wiki, although I'm not inclined to trust Sieg's wiki as a reliable source of information.
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actually slade i would be careful about taking shots at the wiki's accuracy. not only is it a little misleading to make the assumption without testing the data yourself, it also isnt very grateful to those of us who actually took our own personal time to measure the frames. if there is something you find that is inaccurate in the wiki, report it to me, or post it in the frame data discussion thread and i will re-test it myself to try to replicate your results. while i have been lazy in retesting the rest of the TC frames and such, i can assure you that most of it is already quite accurate. i actually find it fortunate that we even have our current level of completion in the wiki, seeing as some wikis dont even have as much.

if you do not believe that 22_88ka:2A is +3 on hit, you may test it yourself. i13K's will trade with siegfried i16 b6 after a NH 22_88ka:2A. infact i just retested it in trainnig mode just a moment ago just to be sure.

as for the usefulness of the move, it could be good if your opponent isnt used to seeing it and you catch them off guard, as well as it could be good in post GI mixup situations, as a semi-safe baiting low, and perhaps even as an anti JG tool through mixing up the speed and timing of your attacks. but it does have limited uses, and it is definitely reactable. its not something i would look to abuse, as say, you would iagA.

EDIT: its also i42. you must include the quick step buffer animation for standard purposes such as block punishment. for an i8wr move, simply subtract 10 from the impact frames
 
Slayer_X64 said:
EDIT: its also i42. you must include the quick step buffer animation for standard purposes such as block punishment. for an i8wr move, simply subtract 10 from the impact frames
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It's i32. Being i42 from neutral ≠ being i42. This is not a difficult concept to understand. Including an action that is not part of the move in the move's startup frames is deceptive and spreads misinformation. I don't go around editing the wikis saying "Oh, 2A is actually i42 because you might do 3B and go take a coffee break first."

I'll be in the 8wayrun chat if you want to discuss this without clogging up the thread.
 
Slade said:
It's i32. Being i42 from neutral ≠ being i42. This is not a difficult concept to understand. Including an action that is not part of the move in the move's startup frames is deceptive and spreads misinformation. I don't go around editing the wikis saying "Oh, 2A is actually i42 because you might do 3B and go take a coffee break first."

I'll be in the 8wayrun chat if you want to discuss this without clogging up the thread.
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actually i'd prefer to take this to PM's. its a given that you dont include the QS animation for the input while already stepping, but for wiki purposes i still insist it be included as each move is assumed to be executed from neutral. to put otherwise is misleading, especially in cases of block punishment(and especially when considering moves such as 22_88kA)
 
I really wouldn't to be honest. The real impact frames of 8wr moves shouldn't be added 10 frames to in my opinion. If you do it from 8wr or use a command like "663", it comes out at the speed it's supposed to. It should be up to the players to add 10 frames to it in their calculations if they like to do those moves from quickstep.

Just my opinion eh. Don't get mad.
 
Can someone tell me the exact amount of frames it takes after the 44bG landing to do a SCH K? I have a hunch you can launch Sieg on reaction even after he lands. Lol
 
Solo said:
Can someone tell me the exact amount of frames it takes after the 44bG landing to do a SCH K? I have a hunch you can launch Sieg on reaction even after he lands. Lol
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You'd have to pinpoint the frame you can realize he cancelled it and the length of your reaction time (both vary from time to time and person to person), but somehow I don't think you'd get reliable results.

Just go to training mode and have Siegfried convincingly mix up using two recorded commands and Replay > Command Random. Maybe throw in a third recorded command that's also a reaction time test like 1A or something so its more like a real match where you're not just reacting to one thing. Other two commands of course being 44B and 44Bg K.

Then just see what you personally can punish it with on reaction. Then realize your reaction time will be slower in a real match.

*runs away*
 
Syn_SC said:
I kept to my own side thankyou, I have a boyfriend.
Stupid holiday inn with two double beds. Ketchup and mustard had to share as well, lol.
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That doesn't even count. Mustard is just a clone of Ketchup.

Also, it's probably best that you kept to your own sides, for the sake of your relationship. Once you go Dredd, you...

...Idunno, sleep with black dudes.
 
Solo said:
Can someone tell me the exact amount of frames it takes after the 44bG landing to do a SCH K? I have a hunch you can launch Sieg on reaction even after he lands. Lol
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well while i havent tested it yet, the way you would figure this out is by attempting to punish the transition as it executes from a neutral state. in order to find it, you look for CH. if your chosen move lands as a CH, you are no longer "punishing" the transition as the attacking state has begun. if you do not get a CH, that means the recovery of the transition was still in progrees. as it is an extremely long transition (in SCIV it took 68 frames) you will likely have to add frames to your attacks through methods of say, jumping, or even starting at large disadvantage in the first place. basically, in SCIV example, i69 moves landed as a CH, while i68 moves landed as NH, making the transition 68 frames long. therefore in SCIV 44bG > SCH would be i79. you would most definately be able to find the transition in the same fashion in SCV. but i would expand your results beyond i30. heres a tip: try to figure out how many frames it takes to jump before you can land and cancel into G? and how many frames does it take for you to land and cancel into an attack. i dont remember the exact numbers but jump G added about 32 frames in SCIV, and jump attack added 27 or 28. give it a try and see what you find. or wait for me to test it later on lol.
 
Anyone know what frame the SBH aGI activates? I'm sick of getting hit out of it while my sword is green.
 
Interesting, good to know. I might do it after a 1K one day if it activates quick enough to aGI a 2A. Lol
 
How can I beat pyrrha omega, viola and hilde? it seems almost imbossible for me
I got bored on SCV so I decided to re-learn siegfried
I can do the agA but not the JF input, sometimes I accidentally grab, I know his every stance and stuff, I still hate siegfried so much though
Help meh

If it helps, I know omega, viola and hilde since I love to play elysium and omega is my main, but my knowledge doesn't work against her stabs
 
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