Viola Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

Destinizish said:
When it can start off of 2A, you can bet your ass you'll see it more than that so long as the opener lands.

And no - the combo isn't hard. It's only as hard as her other combos, relatively.
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realistically speaking, unless the 2a itself is starting the combo, " When it can start off of 2A" argument is not a very valid position, in fact, any starting move before the b+k* is arbitary as it will no matter what need the assistance of 6b+k to perform a combo.... albeit i am aware that only a few moves allow for the 6b+k (insert specific move) b+k* link to work ex being 6b doesn't allow for it.... and its been previously confirmed that other starters aside from the 6b+k links can folo up into the ToD...

rather then flinging around "When it can start off of 2A", wouldnt it be more accurate to say, can be started from b+k* or in fact any general launcher which is MAIN criteria for this to work, b+k* being simply put...the most damaging of her launchers .

i feel that saying that it can start of with 2A will give others, that do not have a lot of viola knowledge will get the wrong assumption...

and lastly, not 100% certain but fairly confident that the ToD combo involves 2 iterations of 2b+k* 6b+k 66a which to my knowledge is at least above average in difficult compared to the normal viola shenanigans, or atleast not something most ppl would be able to perform completely under realistic situations(matches)....
 
Destinizish said:
When it can start off of 2A, you can bet your ass you'll see it more than that so long as the opener lands.
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I think it'd be best to wait and see just how often this doom combo comes into play. I'm thinking it's going to be a fairly uncommon sight, and even less of a match determining one. Considering the meter, it seems more like a desperation move, than a viable strategy. And what does it for me, is the meter. It's what separates doom combos from previous games and this one. So long as it has this limitation, i think it will be kept in check for the most part. Only time will tell however. And now that Evo is done with, there is no reason for people to not know about this.
 
pootytang9 said:
snip.
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Is every Viola player's execution really that bad?

I mean, I haven't had a problem with any of her combos. If I got stuck up on one, 30 minutes is all it took to have it down.

I played Setsuka in IV, and her execution wasn't even all that terrible, but it was waaaaay harder than any of Viola's stuff.

But regardless of that, "most people" isn't what we're looking at here. We're looking at the Violas that go out to tournaments. 3 of the biggest names have already proven they can consistently do the link in question.

And no. The thing can start off of 2A. I mean, a 6B+K setup is a downside to the combo that you can completely ignore. 6B+K is a very standard thing to throw out before any of her pokes, and 2A is pretty much the safest followup ever.

Karrdein said:
Ive done the tod method or whatever you want to call it in matches but ill be well into the combo and than the they'll just drop costing me the match. I'll be doing it from 44A BE 6B+K 3K BE or 6AB and any other setup and they drop sure thats reason enough to not ban her
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You're doing it wrong. You're absolutely doing it wrong. The combo is inescapable and doesn't drop:

SET 6B+K 2A B+K BE 6(A+B) 2B+K BE 6B+K 66A AAB 6A+B(Only the orb should hit) 2B+K BE 6B+K 66A B+K BE 66B 66A+BB.

2A can be swapped with: 3K, 3A, 2B.

Can also start off SET 4A+B B+K BE, CH 6AB B+K BE and the 44A BE -> B+K BE Setups.

taffertier said:
I think it'd be best to wait and see just how often this doom combo comes into play. I'm thinking it's going to be a fairly uncommon sight, and even less of a match determining one. Considering the meter, it seems more like a desperation move, than a viable strategy. And what does it for me, is the meter. It's what separates doom combos from previous games and this one. So long as it has this limitation, i think it will be kept in check for the most part. Only time will tell however. And now that Evo is done with, there is no reason for people to not know about this.
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Yes, there's no reason ATM, hence posting it. I thought people had found it though, because they're all talking about it. The meter is absolutely not limiting. Your options without meter are: 220 damage (3 meter), 200 damage (2 meter), 120ish (1 meter). All of those amounts are completely bullshit to have off of a very safe poke.

Also, why are people who have never been to a tournament trying to give input on whether she should be banned there? You can still play her at home if you're a casual player. AFAIK, only two people out of every tournament player I know have really questioned the ban. One being LP, because he wasn't sure what this ToD was, and the other being taffer (who went to NCR, I suppose :P).
 
Destinizish said:
a quote
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Ok one question then... Realistically speaking, if you were playing a normal 3 round match against some intelligent person (signia,LP,RTD woahhz, Shit maybe a clone of yourself, its hypothetical wateva...)

How often would YOU be able to perform the ToD combo....
Keeping in mind YOUR play style and the fact the opponent is intelligent, meaning youd probably be punished if u just ran up n 6b+k 2a them with out any mixup or anything(then again i dont know how u play and others will react, so maybe u can just do that.......)

IMO the only patch viola needs for 1.0x.... is to simply increase the damage scaling of a combo when an orb hit has been detected...that should probably fix the damage with viola while still keeping her intact....(besides her orb glitchs)

o BTW about the non tounry players voicing thier opinion.. couldnt be that these are future tourny prospects? having a viola ban would probaly kill their wants to join, seeing as how their main got banned....
 
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pootytang9 said:
Ok one question then... Realistically speaking, if you were playing a normal 3 round match against some intelligent person (signia,LP,RTD woahhz, Shit maybe a clone of yourself, its hypothetical wateva...)

How often would YOU be able to perform the ToD combo....
Keeping in mind YOUR play style and the fact the opponent is intelligent, meaning youd probably be punished if u just ran up n 6b+k 2a them with out any mixup or anything(then again i dont know how u play and others will react, so maybe u can just do that.......)

IMO the only patch viola needs for 1.0x.... is to simply increase the damage scaling of a combo when an orb hit has been detected...that should probably fix the damage with viola while still keeping her intact....(besides her orb glitchs)

o BTW about the non tounry players voicing thier opinion.. couldnt be that these are future tourny prospects? having a viola ban would probaly kill their wants to join, seeing as how their main got banned....
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It's a thing of - you haven't experienced the tournament scene - you haven't seen how the competitive community grows. Losing potential Viola mains has nothing on the amount of people that won't join the scene or stick around because a character with ridiculous tools isn't removed.

And I guarantee I could land it every time I landed a starter. Considering the starters are all rather safe (I mean come on, poking with 2A is safer than a bomb shelter) and easy to hit confirm, it's a no risk ridiculous reward situation that she shouldn't have.
 
im pretty sure im doing it right
and never mind i figured out why sometimes it messes up i checked the fourm and in the glitch report it said you cant use use AAB more than twice in a combo
 
Destinizish said:
Also, why are people who have never been to a tournament trying to give input on whether she should be banned there? You can still play her at home if you're a casual player. AFAIK, only two people out of every tournament player I know have really questioned the ban. One being LP, because he wasn't sure what this ToD was, and the other being taffer (who went to NCR, I suppose :P).
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Hey i went to Evo too. Got out of my pool and was set to take the whole thing. And i would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling Patroklos.
 


This is what i believe the ToD combos look like.... i tried off of every starter i can think of, plus one random one....
 

is the ToD doable in a match... yes

was it really worth it....yes

Did i ever get a chance to do it again...no

TBH i only see this being viable as last resort kinda thing... my opponent was on match point, spending a full 4 bars to win that match was worth it....

strategy wise.... Tod combo is a gamble tactic.... you are better off spending meter little by little to secure ur wins rather then save your meter and possibly guarantee one win
 
Karrdein said:
im pretty sure im doing it right...and never mind i figured out why sometimes it messes up i checked the fourm and in the glitch report it said you cant use use AAB more than twice in a combo
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You can do AAB more than twice, if your opponent doing ukemi before 2B+K BE relaunch
 
I
Djangoknight said:
safe unseeable 50/50 low-mid mixup of death so Balance.
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wouldn't call that unseeable. The "Fear..!" And wrist flick are pretty obvious cues and frankly that 50/50 is dangerouse against the edge anyways. As for the wall, I'm really shocked that the ball doesn't glitch Inside of it, and I feel like if you're at an angle to the wall that wouldn't work anyways, only head-on against it. Which as far as I can tell is not absurdly common.
 
toastycheese said:
I
wouldn't call that unseeable. The "Fear..!" And wrist flick are pretty obvious cues and frankly that 50/50 is dangerouse against the edge anyways. As for the wall, I'm really shocked that the ball doesn't glitch Inside of it, and I feel like if you're at an angle to the wall that wouldn't work anyways, only head-on against it. Which as far as I can tell is not absurdly common.
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1K is unseeable. You have to guess if she does it or a mid after she does fear.
 
Slade said:
1K is unseeable. You have to guess if she does it or a mid after she does fear.
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he wasnt refering to the 1k, when he meant obvious, he was more suggestiong that 6b+k was the obvious move... if your playing against an experience player who knows his matchup well, getting this off on an opponent is fairly diffiuclt

you would need to have forced the opponent onto a wall, while at a frame advantage, which still doesn't necessarily guarantee the mix up because no matter how much advantage you have, if you 6b+k 1k/3a/2a/6b , the opponent will still have more then enough to poke out of the mix up
 
Even if you don't poke her out, that set up is dangerous no matter where u are. Its a 5050 for the 1k/ mid then a 5050 after 6b+k hits because it can go to a grab or another mid/low, including a launch atempt. Walls and edges ge damned, the set up doesn't change that much. If you get it off its a fun string of guessing and any wrong guess leads you to a minimum of 40 damage(b grab) or potentialy 100+. Its just nasty
 
toastycheese said:
Even if you don't poke her out, that set up is dangerous no matter where u are. Its a 5050 for the 1k/ mid then a 5050 after 6b+k hits because it can go to a grab or another mid/low, including a launch atempt. Walls and edges ge damned, the set up doesn't change that much. If you get it off its a fun string of guessing and any wrong guess leads you to a minimum of 40 damage(b grab) or potentialy 100+. Its just nasty
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not as dangerous as you think it is actually.

if its not the 6b or the 1k, the 6b+k can be stepped in the blockstrong....

if its 6b, some charecters can TS it, or you can impact it with AutoGI or generic GI, Violas can 4b+k the 6b+k if its 6b+k 6b

if its 1k, most likely it will hit, on block of course will set up for a punish, though the purpose of the 1k was to mix up for the mid, so basing your 6b+k mix ups only with 1k will be a waste of potential i guess

also, the biggest thing, unless your are a great advantage( fully charged 2a+b) most ppl will just hit you out of the 6b+k..... even a most characters on the ground can wakeup and punish a 6b+k before it can become dangerous
 
This thread has nothing to do about bans. I decide to come check to see if i was missing any new stuff and I see a bunch of whining and bitching.

Shut the fuck up. using all your meter to kill someone in a game with already high damage isn't ban worthy.
 
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