Viola Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

DrakeAldan said:
I wanted to see what the hubbub was about for myself... In theory, this is... some pretty scary stuff. Lot of things can go wrong, but...
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6b+k 2k, this action is about 32(im probably wrong its most likely more) frames or so, 2k has a tight timing for the whole string to link correctly...

at touny level play its safe to assume that many players can react to this and 2k out of this.....

even at DA this can be avoidable by simple attacking back.... unless you doing some crazy slow as move, there is 0 risk of a CH when you attack back a viola who is in the process of 6b+k

even if that viola player decides to immediately block after the 6b+K, and blocks the attack from the opponent, any attempts at continuing the combo has failed.....
 
pootytang9 said:
even at DA this can be avoidable by simple attacking back.... unless you doing some crazy slow as move, there is 0 risk of a CH when you attack back a viola who is in the process of 6b+k
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My reactions are slow. Attacking during 6B+K is easier said than done for me, attempting it usually results in me getting CH. I have more success reacting to 6B+K with GI, and even then I have trouble remembering to GI.

The iFC 2K is slower, but given the threat of 3A/6B and the stresses of playing the game it's unlikely I'm going to be able to mash my way out.



I understand what you are saying, and I have looked at the theory many times, but in reality I cannot even react properly to SET 8A+B.

Well, I consider myself average-below average in reaction time, but I have at least seen tournament players get caught as well (Signia mentioned the difficulty in the big topic, anyway...)
 
DrakeAldan said:
My reactions are slow. Attacking during 6B+K is easier said than done for me, attempting it usually results in me getting CH. I have more success reacting to 6B+K with GI, and even then I have trouble remembering to GI.

The iFC 2K is slower, but given the threat of 3A/6B and the stresses of playing the game it's unlikely I'm going to be able to mash my way out.



I understand what you are saying, and I have looked at the theory many times, but in reality I cannot even react properly to SET 8A+B.
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i do agree with you tbh, i my self also have trouble reacting to the mix ups, but i dont speak from my personal experience of countering these mix ups, i speak for the other really good ppl i play against that punish this mix up instantly..

i my self stoped performing this mix up on the main ppl i play against BECAUSE they know their anti viola matchups well.....against scrubs... or ppl who dont kno dam straight ima abuse this shit.....but against people or people who understand the match up very well, im more afriad of perform the mix up then they are dealing with it

im making the assumption that a tournameny level play is more then capable of reacting to 6b+k on time .....


also tbh drake, that CH was from 6b+k itself right?, which in most cases wont lead to anything besides small dmg...id rather eat that on CH then eat anything else on NH

i speak from practice, from experience, not from theory, although i my self am not a good player or a tourny player, the people i play against are......
 
pootytang9 said:
also tbh drake, that CH was from 6b+k itself, which in most cases wont lead to anything besides small dmg...
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no, I mean...

6B+K, I see it, I hear "there!", I press buttons. If I am on point, I attack through like you said. If I am not (pressured/poor reaction/etc.) I get CH by 3A/6B/2A/etc. I know CH does not mean much in these particular combos, but I was just illustrating my situation.
 
pootytang9 said:
i speak from practice, from experience, not from theory, although i my self am not a good player or a tourny player, the people i play against are......
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I would like to know who these people are as well.

Not to stir up any trouble or anything, but if they are familiar names it will give me a point of reference.
 
DrakeAldan said:
I would like to know who these people are as well.

Not to stir up any trouble or anything, but if they are familiar names it will give me a point of reference.
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nah its all good, some of the ppl i play against would be Saneone, xeph ,ndk, juece, shinji, panda i dont play them often becuase for some reason psn doesnt ever want me to play with them, but i do play with them often enough to know they eat me alive....(im not talking about iv played them once and never seen them again)


just to keep on topic......

in terms of avoiding ball pressure on block....

Any move besides 6b meaning 6b+k 3a/2a/1k/3k/2b/2k etc... ya can step immediately and avoid the ball

6b on the other hand is kind of conditional.... 6b at tip range, then yes you can avoid the ball pressure by stepping it..... at close range then u will eat some balls(hehe)

many characters though can escape the ball pressure from a 6b by auto GI or some move with step properites example being ivys 3b, violas 4b+k, apats a+b, infact drake since u play normal pat, im fairly confident his auto gi can get out of the 6b pressure (i no you can use pats GI to punish the last hit of raphs BE, so im assuming its fast enough to do the same for violas 6b+k 6b)


the ball pressure is aviodable by paying close attention to the starting move after the 6b+k, i personally still cant react to it 100% but with practice i dont doubt i will improve and be able to stuff that pressure game
 
pootytang9 said:
Any move besides 6b meaning 6b+k 3a/2a/1k/3k/2b/2k etc... ya can step immediately and avoid the ball
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hm. It seems like I can get caught by AA afterwards though for stepping

pootytang9 said:
6b at tip range, then yes you can avoid the ball pressure by stepping it..... at close range then u will eat some balls(hehe)
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seems like I can successfully step right. Is this normal? the AA clause from before still stands

pootytang9 said:
infact drake since u play normal pat, im fairly confident his auto gi can get out of the 6b pressure (i no you can use pats GI to punish the last hit of raphs BE, so im assuming its fast enough to do the same for violas 6b+k 6b)
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A+B can't GI the orb... (If it did, that would skew the matchup quite a bit!)
 
DrakeAldan said:
hm. It seems like I can get caught by AA afterwards though for stepping
seems like I can successfully step right. Is this normal? the AA clause from before still stands
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uhm, not sure if the step right is normal....ill go on later and test it out

and yes the aa will hit but then....but chances are slim someone will react to the step and aa, most of the times when the 6b+k strings are performed they are on auto pilot, the commands are usually buffered



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update

uhm so ya, TBH yes you can step right at a close range 6b+k 6b, and ya it kinda does not make sense seeing as the orb is supposed to be centered, im guessing thats a glitch in the way the orb is called, but hey people will have less to complain.....

and yes the aa will hit if you step, but no other of violas horizontals can hit...

and i guess the aa is just a risk in attempting to escape from the pressure game, but rather eat the aa then risk guessing wrong and eating full launcher
 
Guaranteed B+K BE hit: B+K (to set directly behind them) B+K BE A+G/B+G.
It won't give them a chance to break the grab and you'll launch. The second hit of B+K BE doesn't work, though, and you're only able to get good guaranteed damage off of A+G. B+G recovers way slow, you're only able to get 2K/2B, etc. A+G can get 66B, 8A+B, 2A+B, etc.
 
jwdinkc said:
For some reason this doesn't work for me. The second 44A BE always pushes the opponent out of reach for me.
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The guy is doing a reset with the backthrow - delaying it imperceptibly so it doesn't count as a combo. If the opponent knows about it, they can duck and avoid it.

Knowledge courtesy of Synraii.
 
JustinAkatsuki said:
The obvious answer is a ban man....to me its not that hard to figure out because as the game evolves more players will just keep on using these TOD combo's and with practice it's gonna happen nearly everytime.
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Oh yeah cause so many people are using them now, until they become prevelant in tourneys this is all speculation. So far it's been weeks of people saying she'll be unstoppable with very little proof to show for it. I still believe these are too impractical for actual use.
 
Slade said:
That's exactly what people said about Hilde's doom combos. Just saying.
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I think it just keeps going back to the meter, doom combos of previous titles and this one are pretty different. Of all the people playing her there still doesnt seem to be anyone using them. I still believe it's too early to be talking about a ban, as it is right now it's just people bickering back and forth.
 
taffertier said:
I think it just keeps going back to the meter, doom combos of previous titles and this one are pretty different. Of all the people playing her there still doesnt seem to be anyone using them. I still believe it's too early to be talking about a ban, as it is right now it's just people bickering back and forth.
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Meh I consider getting meter in this game really easy. And syn on xbl messaged me he can get those tod combo's consistently online and offline, so I think it's only a matter of time before those combo's actually get mastered. Me and syn usually have a good connection so ima play him soon so I can see these combo's.
 
Synalon said:
The guy is doing a reset with the backthrow - delaying it imperceptibly so it doesn't count as a combo. If the opponent knows about it, they can duck and avoid it.

Knowledge courtesy of Synraii.
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If this was true, the damage from the combo wouldn't continue to accumulate, right? I'm thinking he's doing some fancy Asian JF timing. Look at how he inputs A+G. Instead of mashing it out like I would, he times it exactly when 6B+K connects. I think with perfect grab timing, the stun properties from 44A BE reset because the grab was not buffered. Unless this really is some glitch that accumulates damage from the combos even though they are all separate.
 
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