Z.W.E.I. General Discussion/Q&A

Not really, I just forgot to type A+B for reasons beyond me haha.
It is actually something I do if the person is attempting to wake up right away, since is a very slow low move many people may try to stop with a BB, I don't think most will be able too thou, anyway you opinion would be great. mind is all off and stuff,

EDIT: So very sorry, my I meant 11K really sorry again
 
Ramus said:
Not really, I just forgot to type A+B for reasons beyond me haha.
It is actually something I do if the person is attempting to wake up right away, since is a very slow low move many people may try to stop with a BB, I don't think most will be able too thou, anyway you opinion would be great. mind is all off and stuff,

EDIT: So very sorry, my I meant 11K really sorry again
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11K is decent oki after that combo especially at the wall because it hits grounded and hits roll which is nice. A good tip would be to do 2361K instead of 11k so it comes out straight away so the step in the 11 direction doesnt give it away.
 
Thank you @AndyrooxDS, you always helps a lot, sorry for asking so much noob stuff, I just play this like a pendulum so sometimes I need to shake off the rust and remember some stuff.
 
So I have sent a request to Partisan asking if its possible to become a mod for this SA arena. I hope to get it so I can get to work and sort things out a little more freely.
 
Found a imperfection with ZWEIs wrB.
You know that sad unfortunate time where you catch them with wrB and then your BT b+k becomes B+K thus whiffs and you miss out on about 50 free damage? Yeah well its because that wrB was tip range.

In fact tip range wrB is a lot less damaging than you think, pressing G and attacking wont align you properly in time and without pressing G you will attack in the opposite direction, even if you try BT A+B.

So what should your follow up be when you score a tip range wrB? I have found 3 alternatives.
Tip wrB > BT 2B = 47 damage (for a combo this was the most consistent one I could find, occasionally was able to land BT B for 49 damage)
Tip wrB > B+K BE = This seems like a strong set up for B+K* because you do it BT and when you grab while facing away ZWEI turns around then grabs making his grab range slightly longer!
Tip wrB > press G twice(to be facing them) > apply Mid, throw/2k mix up = Here they are left right in your face, good grab opportunity and if the opponent ducks or doesnt wanna stand up then you have 1K BE to use aswell.

So try and be aware what range you land your wrBs because if its tip range you can avoid whiffng B+K and apply a strong set up.
 
AndyrooxDS said:
its because that wrB was tip range
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Actually, it's because B+K is pressed too fast it doesn't give time for the opponent to be recorded as "behind" you. If WR B hits at tip range, simply delay B+K and nothing changes.
AndyrooxDS said:
So what should your follow up be when you score a tip range wrB?
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G:1K BE
G:4(A)
G:1(B)
delayed BT B+K.... in which case goes back to the options
BT B+K > BT A+B
BT B+K > G:1K BE
and so on. Even if you delay B+K (to a certain point of course) on a perfectly landed WR B it will still launch the opponent.

However, there's also the issue of BT B+K whiffing on its own even when everything was executed perfectly, in which case is a game defect and there's nothing we can do :(
 
Zane said:
Actually, it's because B+K is pressed too fast it doesn't give time for the opponent to be recorded as "behind" you. If WR B hits at tip range, simply delay B+K and nothing changes.

G:1K BE
G:4(A)
G:1(B)
delayed BT B+K.... in which case goes back to the options
BT B+K > BT A+B
BT B+K > G:1K BE
and so on. Even if you delay B+K (to a certain point of course) on a perfectly landed WR B it will still launch the opponent.

However, there's also the issue of BT B+K whiffing on its own even when everything was executed perfectly, in which case is a game defect and there's nothing we can do :(
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I was doing this to Yoshi when I nocticed it.
I went back to training and nocticed the thing I pointed out is character specific.
Against Leixia, Mitsu, Yoshi and Astaroth delayed B+K will still come out as regular B+K. Those 4 characters can be hit with wrB at the beginning of the round without having to get closer.
For all other characters yes its because B+K wasnt delayed.
Sorry for confusion.
 
AndyrooxDS said:
I was doing this to Yoshi when I nocticed it.
I went back to training and nocticed the thing I pointed out is character specific.
Against Leixia, Mitsu, Yoshi and Astaroth delayed B+K will still come out as regular B+K. Those 4 characters can be hit with wrB at the beginning of the round without having to get closer.
For all other characters yes its because B+K wasnt delayed.
Sorry for confusion.
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Oh ok. Gotcha
 
@Fearal_Koholic You asked "Is piped piper useful at all?"

Yes, and its a move I also need to try use more as well.
Properties-
High, i27, EIN, 6B+KB is natural combo on hit.

On block-
Firstly 6B+K and 6(B+K) are -17 on block, however if they know about 6B+KB or 6B+KA then they know better not to try and attack here. If they wait and attack then you can block and EIN will hit them OR if they wait and step you can start an offense or backstep safely. Hmm interesting idea for time out situations...

From here it turns into more of a gimmick, but that's not to say its always gonna get puinshed in fact because its a move never seen used by ZWEI players and if you use it sparingly in the right spots you could potentially get away with it never being punished.
Anyway 6B+KA and 6B+KB.
6B+KA makes ZWEI do a small horizontal swipe after the first EIN hit, it will score a CH if your opponent tries to attack or step here and this has surprising forward RO range. If the opponent blocks it then he can punish ZWEI with a i13 or faster move before the last hit comes out(i14 trades). They can also step the last hit and punish but they have to input the punish quick or ZWEI can block in time.
6B+KB imo the better one, if the opponent attacks or steps(apart for the RO reward kinda makes 6B+KA a little useless) this puts them into a launched state, you can combo A+B or 1B at the wall or RO edge. If this one gets blocked ZWEI can be punished with a i14 or faster attack(i15 trades). They can also step this one as well put to punish has to be done fast.
Lastly you get great advantage here if they block the final hit, here is where you can take full advantage of them not puinshing you. The last hit puts you at a strong +8 frame advantage, so A+B follow up would score counter hit against anything i11 or slower, You also have 6A to kill step and also 3a/ 3a BE for a harder read. As for backstep you have 66B but don't do 66BA because the A will whiff. Remember they cant backstep when their back is to the wall ;)

On hit
6B+KB is a natural combo on hit for 55 damage and you get an A+B at the wall or RO edge for 81. 6B+KB has more forward RO range than A+B which is surprising. Lastly 6B+KA the last hit isnt natural combo on hit but the last hit has to be JGed, GIed or blocked which is a cool mix up between 6(B+K)A to mess up GI timing and if the last hit gets blocked youve got that +8 to work with again :)

Sorry for long post.
 
So imo its uses are, testing the opponents MU knowledge and using it as a post-GI option at the wall.
 
AndyrooxDS said:
@Fearal_Koholic You asked "Is piped piper useful at all?"

Yes, and its a move I also need to try use more as well.
Properties-
High, i27, EIN, 6B+KB is natural combo on hit.

On block-
Firstly 6B+K and 6(B+K) are -17 on block, however if they know about 6B+KB or 6B+KA then they know better not to try and attack here. If they wait and attack then you can block and EIN will hit them OR if they wait and step you can start an offense or backstep safely. Hmm interesting idea for time out situations...

From here it turns into more of a gimmick, but that's not to say its always gonna get puinshed in fact because its a move never seen used by ZWEI players and if you use it sparingly in the right spots you could potentially get away with it never being punished.
Anyway 6B+KA and 6B+KB.
6B+KA makes ZWEI do a small horizontal swipe after the first EIN hit, it will score a CH if your opponent tries to attack or step here and this has surprising forward RO range. If the opponent blocks it then he can punish ZWEI with a i13 or faster move before the last hit comes out(i14 trades). They can also step the last hit and punish but they have to input the punish quick or ZWEI can block in time.
6B+KB imo the better one, if the opponent attacks or steps(apart for the RO reward kinda makes 6B+KA a little useless) this puts them into a launched state, you can combo A+B or 1B at the wall or RO edge. If this one gets blocked ZWEI can be punished with a i14 or faster attack(i15 trades). They can also step this one as well put to punish has to be done fast.
Lastly you get great advantage here if they block the final hit, here is where you can take full advantage of them not puinshing you. The last hit puts you at a strong +8 frame advantage, so A+B follow up would score counter hit against anything i11 or slower, You also have 6A to kill step and also 3a/ 3a BE for a harder read. As for backstep you have 66B but don't do 66BA because the A will whiff. Remember they cant backstep when their back is to the wall ;)

On hit
6B+KB is a natural combo on hit for 55 damage and you get an A+B at the wall or RO edge for 81. 6B+KB has more forward RO range than A+B which is surprising. Lastly 6B+KA the last hit isnt natural combo on hit but the last hit has to be JGed, GIed or blocked which is a cool mix up between 6(B+K)A to mess up GI timing and if the last hit gets blocked youve got that +8 to work with again :)

Sorry for long post.
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Thanks a mil andy! If anything the long post is a bonus. I can see it does have some amazing combo potential and the mix up is likely to put an opponent on edge. The main problem i have in using it is its range and speed. For an attack that starts with ein the startup is very noticeable and if you're using it at all, the opponent is likely close enough to duck and punish. Can you input the A or B follow up even if the first hit doesn't connect? I think it happened during a game but i can't be sure, maybe my timing is off because of nerves haha. If those follow-ups can be done regardless of hit it would make the move worthy of a wild card type usage IMO. I imagine there's huge trickery / damage potential in 6(BK)A, 66BK, though AG may be safer.
 
Yeah its speed and the fact its high are its downfall, but I dont think you need to worry about them ducking it on reaction, especially if your using it sparingly.
One way to think about apart from reading highs and ducking for 2K the opponent has no reason to duck this increases them blocking the first hit more likely.
You can only input 6B+KA or B if the first hit is blocked or hits.
However Einless 6B+KA/B it can be done, To bad they are both extremely bad on block however ive caught people before with einless 6B+KB because ZWEI does a faint first and it looks like a opportunity to attack then they get smacked lol
Very stylish way to win a round :P
 
Weird find here

If you can set this up it will work

B+K* BT A+B 1A will connect on hit.

On a jumper
6B+KA > Ein

This is really interesting because it seems to leave you at a big +. This will also caus someone to splat onto a short wall.


Edit
ok this is interesting as well.
6(B+K)A on someone in the air

This setup allows you to setup a vortex with PPS Ein.
Here is what I found

6(B+K)A > 1A > Ein is a good example.
6(B+K)A > Ein > 11K
6(B+KA > Ein > 66B

And I also found that if you use a slight delay and then release Ein, The placement of your foe is now changed to right in front of you. The Knock down from 6B+K on someone in the air is untechable. PPS is a really odd move.
 
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So much like zwei himself, high risk, high reward. I went it to training to test if the follow ups can be done without connecting, it works oddly enough! I think you have to time it to the exact frame ein reaches to his max range of the first hit. Either that or its a glitch. Regardless, i reckon the best use of PPS would be straight after the 4A ein unblockable set up against a wall. Instead of using AB while they are wall stunned, 6BK+B could increase the string. I'll have to test this when i play again. Played for a good while today and i can tell i'm improving against my worst match-ups (natsu, astaroth and mitsu) but i still lost more than i won. Undoubtedly though zwei is far better than other players give him credit for.
 
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