siegfrieds bad matchups.
- Thread starter Drazien56
- Start date
Slayer_X64
Siegfried SA Moderator
Then we would be graced to live in such a truly, wonderful world in lord Tiamats presence ;)
as for this thread, lets revive it some.
List Siegs bad match-ups, and give reasons why they are bad. any information on a move per move basis would be EXTREMELY helpful here, and is welcomed. provide anti character tactics if u know any.
example:
Siegfried Bad matchups:
1) Sophitia
-she completely destroys tip range tactics and can out space sieg, specifically with TAS B and 66B. completely eliminates any long range mixups a Siegfried user would usually lean towards
-she does well punishing stance roulette techniques. AS B, 11A, AS A and TAS AA. also gives her options for the spacing game
-strong SG pressure makes her difficult, even impossible to soul crush at times. she can also rack up mean pressure on sieg by outdoing him
-her ability to trade with WR B mixups not only takes away yet another of siegs safe options.
-range makes provoking whiffs difficult
All in all, Sophie is definately Siegfrieds worst nightmare. if i had to give this matchup some numbers, i'd easily say its 8-2. now heres somethings sieg can do against sophie:
-use grabs, forced block and roulette on wakeup for pressure
-utilize his strong long range poke and punish game
-step G to get free side/back grab/1B/3B on an overly agressive sophie
-learn her moves well to know exactly when u can step, and when u can duck (eg 66B+KAB u can duck the A for free WR B combo/ forced block/ stance roulette mix up.)
as for this thread, lets revive it some.
List Siegs bad match-ups, and give reasons why they are bad. any information on a move per move basis would be EXTREMELY helpful here, and is welcomed. provide anti character tactics if u know any.
example:
Siegfried Bad matchups:
1) Sophitia
-she completely destroys tip range tactics and can out space sieg, specifically with TAS B and 66B. completely eliminates any long range mixups a Siegfried user would usually lean towards
-she does well punishing stance roulette techniques. AS B, 11A, AS A and TAS AA. also gives her options for the spacing game
-strong SG pressure makes her difficult, even impossible to soul crush at times. she can also rack up mean pressure on sieg by outdoing him
-her ability to trade with WR B mixups not only takes away yet another of siegs safe options.
-range makes provoking whiffs difficult
All in all, Sophie is definately Siegfrieds worst nightmare. if i had to give this matchup some numbers, i'd easily say its 8-2. now heres somethings sieg can do against sophie:
-use grabs, forced block and roulette on wakeup for pressure
-utilize his strong long range poke and punish game
-step G to get free side/back grab/1B/3B on an overly agressive sophie
-learn her moves well to know exactly when u can step, and when u can duck (eg 66B+KAB u can duck the A for free WR B combo/ forced block/ stance roulette mix up.)
catch-me-slippin
[08] Mercenary
After experimenting with other characters (believe me I've tried), I've come back to my original beast siggy. He was the first character I ever used, and now finally the last. I came very close in ability with nightmare as with siggy. I tried cass, loved her, tried cervy, liked him, tried kilik, thought he was decent, tried Zas, thought he sucked hard.
My next project will be Ivy. She has massive potential.
Back to the thread topic, bad matchups for sieg are basically most of the fast characters. Im not saying he's inferior to those characters, but I'm saying that against those siggy has to be careful. Basically you can't commit too much, and pick your shots. What i mean is try NOT to bouncing around from stance to stance when doing moves (You know, when you hold the button down, like 3b-hold-b). I'm not saying that you should stick to one hit wonders only, but you should only do things like that once in awhile for the element of surprise. Setsuka, and sophitia are the only ones that give me real problems because alot of their moves dash forward so much that sieg's range becomes not that important anymore. Pick your shots, don't be over commital, and most importantly LEARN THE OPPONENT"S CHARACTER to the point where you can practically use them well. NOTHING EXPLOITS THE WEAKNESSES OF A CHARACTER MORE THAN BY USING THEM AND KNOWING THEM INTIMATLY. Someone else on this thread said that they would have called siggy a top tier, except for the fact that 8wayrun will laugh at them. Guess what, I AGREE WITH YOU. Sieg is underatted for sure.
I apologze for my posts in the past that were misguided, and wrong. I said some things that were based on assumptions that weren't true.
My next project will be Ivy. She has massive potential.
Back to the thread topic, bad matchups for sieg are basically most of the fast characters. Im not saying he's inferior to those characters, but I'm saying that against those siggy has to be careful. Basically you can't commit too much, and pick your shots. What i mean is try NOT to bouncing around from stance to stance when doing moves (You know, when you hold the button down, like 3b-hold-b). I'm not saying that you should stick to one hit wonders only, but you should only do things like that once in awhile for the element of surprise. Setsuka, and sophitia are the only ones that give me real problems because alot of their moves dash forward so much that sieg's range becomes not that important anymore. Pick your shots, don't be over commital, and most importantly LEARN THE OPPONENT"S CHARACTER to the point where you can practically use them well. NOTHING EXPLOITS THE WEAKNESSES OF A CHARACTER MORE THAN BY USING THEM AND KNOWING THEM INTIMATLY. Someone else on this thread said that they would have called siggy a top tier, except for the fact that 8wayrun will laugh at them. Guess what, I AGREE WITH YOU. Sieg is underatted for sure.
I apologze for my posts in the past that were misguided, and wrong. I said some things that were based on assumptions that weren't true.
Slayer_X64
Siegfried SA Moderator
2) Ivy
-Ivy also has the upper hand in range vs sieg while she is in WP, making spacing almost hopeless as long as she is in whip mode
-She has alot of extremely good mid-range whiff punishes, and excellend step to boot, making throwing out slow verticals seem almost suicidal
-has good mixups, as well as the devastating iCS/SS, requiring sieg to be very alert and duck alot. this helps to set up SW 3B which does massive SG damage.
- Strong step lets her step out of almost all of siegs mixups
-extremely difficult to equal her quick damage input without taking extreme risks
Definately a terrible match up vs sieg. i believe the numbers are 7-3 for ivy. but lets not lose hope for there are still some things sieg can do:
-attempt to play a conservative form of the spacing game whenever ivy switches to sword to provoke those 3B's for whiff punish
-be very cautious when she gets in close-mid range or starts quickly stepping, as thats when she'll look for an opportunity to hammer u with CS or SS. duck frequently and retaliate with WR B or K
-play a very strong step kill game, even if it gets risky. once u train her not to step, u can go for better, more potentially beneficial mixups like WR B SCH stuff or even go so far as to throw out SRSH
-Soul Crush Game is a very difficult game to play here, but it can be enabled by spacing SW and very cautiously stepping CL. mind u she can do what it takes u to do much quicker, so be careful
-be extremely alert for ur punishes and interrupts. ivy's a bit faster than sieg, which allows her to attack consecutively on disadvantage through more conventional means. this means every 3K, K, 2A, b6, 6A and 6K counts, no matter how medial the damage
-use 3B very selectively. she can punish it very well, but it especially means bad news when she is in CL or WP, since she either gets a free 3A or a free 214B
-214 B also applies to siegs WR B SCH K, although this can be detered by mixing in SCH K with SCH A.
-last but not least watch out for her SW 9B, as it can interrupt alot of siegs attacks on start up for CH.
-Ivy also has the upper hand in range vs sieg while she is in WP, making spacing almost hopeless as long as she is in whip mode
-She has alot of extremely good mid-range whiff punishes, and excellend step to boot, making throwing out slow verticals seem almost suicidal
-has good mixups, as well as the devastating iCS/SS, requiring sieg to be very alert and duck alot. this helps to set up SW 3B which does massive SG damage.
- Strong step lets her step out of almost all of siegs mixups
-extremely difficult to equal her quick damage input without taking extreme risks
Definately a terrible match up vs sieg. i believe the numbers are 7-3 for ivy. but lets not lose hope for there are still some things sieg can do:
-attempt to play a conservative form of the spacing game whenever ivy switches to sword to provoke those 3B's for whiff punish
-be very cautious when she gets in close-mid range or starts quickly stepping, as thats when she'll look for an opportunity to hammer u with CS or SS. duck frequently and retaliate with WR B or K
-play a very strong step kill game, even if it gets risky. once u train her not to step, u can go for better, more potentially beneficial mixups like WR B SCH stuff or even go so far as to throw out SRSH
-Soul Crush Game is a very difficult game to play here, but it can be enabled by spacing SW and very cautiously stepping CL. mind u she can do what it takes u to do much quicker, so be careful
-be extremely alert for ur punishes and interrupts. ivy's a bit faster than sieg, which allows her to attack consecutively on disadvantage through more conventional means. this means every 3K, K, 2A, b6, 6A and 6K counts, no matter how medial the damage
-use 3B very selectively. she can punish it very well, but it especially means bad news when she is in CL or WP, since she either gets a free 3A or a free 214B
-214 B also applies to siegs WR B SCH K, although this can be detered by mixing in SCH K with SCH A.
-last but not least watch out for her SW 9B, as it can interrupt alot of siegs attacks on start up for CH.
Ivy I've never had a problem with - deal with WP6B+K and space SW and practically used, she really has no bigger an advantage on Sig then most.
At high level, I find it is more about the player than the character, honestly I could just use my kilik, ditch sig and on paper I would be more of a threat.
The reason I don't is much like the turn in poker, implied odds, risk/reward - I'm talking of course about his devastating mixup game.
Eg. SCH cancel ~ 2A+B/1B. Basic and simple mixups, but devastating should your opponent guess wrong. Matchup charts do not consider this.
I have played many a hardcore player and my Sig has battered Algols, Kiliks, Voldos and Cass'. Completely outclassed on paper, but what we mustn't forget is that on paper, Rock would give him a run for his money.
As a gambler myself,I am mixup dependent, but this I found caused me to get complacent and thus vulnerable to enemies of similar style.
For that reason I find the most dangerous anti Sieg chars are:
1. Mitsu - able to evade and whiff punish well due to mid range spacing, point blank 2K,B 3B mixup. Relic AGI and MST 6B_K,B mixup in stance. I like to make others guess, I don't want to guess myself.
Overall, Nightmarish at any range with more evasive mobility.
2. Amy - I don't need to explain why this bitch is on here. Any online players reading this, I feel 10x worse for you here.
3. Voldo - SG god, Cal B_B+K, BT 3B_1A mixup, dangerous throw game, good spacing, 4A+K super backstep.
I just plain hate Voldo. ~_~
At high level, I find it is more about the player than the character, honestly I could just use my kilik, ditch sig and on paper I would be more of a threat.
The reason I don't is much like the turn in poker, implied odds, risk/reward - I'm talking of course about his devastating mixup game.
Eg. SCH cancel ~ 2A+B/1B. Basic and simple mixups, but devastating should your opponent guess wrong. Matchup charts do not consider this.
I have played many a hardcore player and my Sig has battered Algols, Kiliks, Voldos and Cass'. Completely outclassed on paper, but what we mustn't forget is that on paper, Rock would give him a run for his money.
As a gambler myself,I am mixup dependent, but this I found caused me to get complacent and thus vulnerable to enemies of similar style.
For that reason I find the most dangerous anti Sieg chars are:
1. Mitsu - able to evade and whiff punish well due to mid range spacing, point blank 2K,B 3B mixup. Relic AGI and MST 6B_K,B mixup in stance. I like to make others guess, I don't want to guess myself.
Overall, Nightmarish at any range with more evasive mobility.
2. Amy - I don't need to explain why this bitch is on here. Any online players reading this, I feel 10x worse for you here.
3. Voldo - SG god, Cal B_B+K, BT 3B_1A mixup, dangerous throw game, good spacing, 4A+K super backstep.
I just plain hate Voldo. ~_~
Pantocrator
[10] Knight
My opinion
-Grab are dangerous against sophitia. Roulette is not very effective because sophitia verticals track a lot.
-Too dangerous, because of whiff punish. If you whiff with Siegfried at max range, she is actually in the best range to perform her halfbar combo.
-Siegfried's step sucks and stepG is less effective, Sophitia verticals tracks a lot => Fail.
-Useless against strong player.
Yes, this is 8-2, because there is no issue, execpt rape your oppenant's brain.
For Ivy, yes this is 7-3. IMAO the second worst MU for Siegfried.
I don't have real solution. Don't be afraid to use 3B a lot, and unsafe mix up, especially when she is in WP or CL. Take care of block punishement in SW. 22B and WSAA are your best friend in this MU. 66B, 6B and dash~G may be useful. SG pressure is not easy but possible, and can force Ivy to attack.
But if you have true advices against Ivy, i'm open. :-). How to deal with WP6B+K ?
For mitsu : at midrange Siegfried keep the advantage. Don't forget to punish him. (2KB, RLC A and mist kB by 1B. RLC B, RCL A+B and a:B by 3B, etc...)
For Amy : Same way. (2B+K by WS [B ] kB. 66A+B by K. 236B by a+k[A])
Voldo : Voldo is stepable, 88B for 80 dmg works well versus him.
Against BT Voldo, 3B/grab mix up is very unsane. Siegfried has the best backthrow of the game ! 68 + amazing wake up : here mix 3B and grab again, because voldo must wake in BT again.
By the way, 11B is very usefull against BT voldo.
Endly there is a lot of move to punish with a+k[A] : 3A, etc...
-Grab are dangerous against sophitia. Roulette is not very effective because sophitia verticals track a lot.
-Too dangerous, because of whiff punish. If you whiff with Siegfried at max range, she is actually in the best range to perform her halfbar combo.
-Siegfried's step sucks and stepG is less effective, Sophitia verticals tracks a lot => Fail.
-Useless against strong player.
Yes, this is 8-2, because there is no issue, execpt rape your oppenant's brain.
For Ivy, yes this is 7-3. IMAO the second worst MU for Siegfried.
I don't have real solution. Don't be afraid to use 3B a lot, and unsafe mix up, especially when she is in WP or CL. Take care of block punishement in SW. 22B and WSAA are your best friend in this MU. 66B, 6B and dash~G may be useful. SG pressure is not easy but possible, and can force Ivy to attack.
MU charts consider mixup. But do you play online ? this mixup will never works against a good player offline. No guess, only reflexe.
But if you have true advices against Ivy, i'm open. :-). How to deal with WP6B+K ?
For mitsu : at midrange Siegfried keep the advantage. Don't forget to punish him. (2KB, RLC A and mist kB by 1B. RLC B, RCL A+B and a:B by 3B, etc...)
For Amy : Same way. (2B+K by WS [B ] kB. 66A+B by K. 236B by a+k[A])
Voldo : Voldo is stepable, 88B for 80 dmg works well versus him.
Against BT Voldo, 3B/grab mix up is very unsane. Siegfried has the best backthrow of the game ! 68 + amazing wake up : here mix 3B and grab again, because voldo must wake in BT again.
By the way, 11B is very usefull against BT voldo.
Endly there is a lot of move to punish with a+k[A] : 3A, etc...
Slayer_X64
Siegfried SA Moderator
aye sophie can punish sieg nasty at max range. but at max range u can see TAS B coming out alot more easily as well. as long as u dont get too unsafe, and with some luck u can just barely see TAS B comin and step 1B it. u may eat some TAS A occasionally, but IMO this is better than eating TAS B TAS B. 2A, b6 and other such moves @ tip are great. 22_88B and other such moves on the other hand are quite suicidal. im not saying that its an iron guide to go buy, just some things to help ur judgement. on the other hand if u knd sophie and have a forced block, grab, stance mixup, it makes throwing those things out there a bit safer due to the fact that the pressure puts her in a very tough position. im not saying thats bullet proof either, but forcing her to either block or eat things on wakeup can occasionally allow u to surprise her by taking a little gamble such as dashing in for a quick grab, or even depending on how she reacts throwing urself into stance for some risk/reward situations.
deal with WP 6B+K? u can GI it, however if u dont feel confident in ur ability to GI, or are playing online u can usually use a decent ranged attack after and it will interrupt her next 6B+K, because if i remember correctly, its pretty - on grd, tho im not sure by how much.
as for 3B, she can kill it in WP by 3A, and i believe in CL she can just 214B out of it. from WR B when she's in coil if she 214B's, i think she eats the A, not sure tho. while i agree with the rest, i have to ask y WR AA? cant she get a WP 3B combo off it? and even so couldnt she get a free attempt at iCS/SS off a blocked WR B? while i realize it counters 214B abuse very well, i dont think i would use it on a regular basis vs ivy.
Also for mitsu, i think this was mentioned before but just in case, try to stay just out of range of 2KB if u can.
Slayer_X64
Siegfried SA Moderator
my bad for WP 6B+K i need to clarify. for GI i meant GI WP 6B+K2_8. as for repeated use of it tho, something like 6B shud beat it. as for 3B vs WP 3A, thats assuming u stop instantly after its grded, leaving u at -20+ for an iCS/SS attempt. but if u K to prevent it, thats also a CH WP 3A, leaving u for a CH WP 3A WP 3B combo.
As for sophie, yea shes a real bad matchup. but u wont win with pokes alone, and u'll eventually have to get something off, assuming u can somehow avoid all of her set ups in the 1st place, because she's going to hit u whether u like it or not. thats y its high risk, high reward. if anything ur best bet is a few real good GI's off 66B. i wouldnt rule out 2A either. yes its punishable, but its a fast, long ranged low poke. its just not abusable, so save it for when u need it.
i suppose i see ur point about WR AA going into WR AA2, but isnt the cancel also punishable to a degree? although u do retain fear advantage, so i can see how that would work ok. nothing to abuse IMO.
As for sophie, yea shes a real bad matchup. but u wont win with pokes alone, and u'll eventually have to get something off, assuming u can somehow avoid all of her set ups in the 1st place, because she's going to hit u whether u like it or not. thats y its high risk, high reward. if anything ur best bet is a few real good GI's off 66B. i wouldnt rule out 2A either. yes its punishable, but its a fast, long ranged low poke. its just not abusable, so save it for when u need it.
i suppose i see ur point about WR AA going into WR AA2, but isnt the cancel also punishable to a degree? although u do retain fear advantage, so i can see how that would work ok. nothing to abuse IMO.
2A+B and 1B are indeed quite distinct, but cancelled into they are masked rather well, I suppose pressure comes into it to.
Trust me though, it works - I've played most hardcore UK players offline and the mixup works & no I don't play online - not seriously at least.
As for WP 6B+K it is hugely unsafe on block so you have time to use his godly frontstep and check you're opponent with B6, which pretty much forces block, aga mixup for steppers. It is also obvious when an Ivy player will use it, so just step punish the 1st hit with CH 3B. Simple.
Also, siegs ws AA is completely useless - eg. My opponent blocks the 1st hit and immediately uses 8A - name me one WS aa mixup that will stop you eating damage? The only time it is useful is when you're opponent ismwaiting for the infamously unsafe 2nd hit to combo from. But that doesn't make it a good mixup, it just means you're opponent got greedy.
I realise that doesn't apply with WS [A], but any i15/ faster move will beat out even the kick. WS AA makes for good damage on CH, but it is far to risky and even when successful leaves you at unfavourable range against most characters.
Trust me though, it works - I've played most hardcore UK players offline and the mixup works & no I don't play online - not seriously at least.
As for WP 6B+K it is hugely unsafe on block so you have time to use his godly frontstep and check you're opponent with B6, which pretty much forces block, aga mixup for steppers. It is also obvious when an Ivy player will use it, so just step punish the 1st hit with CH 3B. Simple.
Also, siegs ws AA is completely useless - eg. My opponent blocks the 1st hit and immediately uses 8A - name me one WS aa mixup that will stop you eating damage? The only time it is useful is when you're opponent ismwaiting for the infamously unsafe 2nd hit to combo from. But that doesn't make it a good mixup, it just means you're opponent got greedy.
I realise that doesn't apply with WS [A], but any i15/ faster move will beat out even the kick. WS AA makes for good damage on CH, but it is far to risky and even when successful leaves you at unfavourable range against most characters.
Pantocrator
[10] Knight
WS AA is gold, especialy against Ivy. Mid, huge range, full antiside, i17.
CH confirmable. This is not a mix up. btw WS AA is ininterupable, even by TJ.
About 3B you have to mix. SS is breakable.
Hardocre UK players don't exist :-)
But I'll try...
About WP 6B+K2
Very hard to GI in reaction. And yes she has lot of similar long range move like 6B or 1Wp, 44A+B, etc.
But against 6B+K/6B+K2 mix up ? ahaha.
Endly she is able to make whiff your B6/3B/agA by backstep for exemple.
CH confirmable. This is not a mix up. btw WS AA is ininterupable, even by TJ.
About 3B you have to mix. SS is breakable.
Hardocre UK players don't exist :-)
But I'll try...
About WP 6B+K2
Very hard to GI in reaction. And yes she has lot of similar long range move like 6B or 1Wp, 44A+B, etc.
But against 6B+K/6B+K2 mix up ? ahaha.
Endly she is able to make whiff your B6/3B/agA by backstep for exemple.
Admittedly the UK community is smaller than the French community and we have never sent a team to Cannes, but that does not at all mean we have no ability. I would prefer this discussion to stay polite but make assumptions like that again and I will turn nasty.
As it happens a UK team is being assembled for Cannes 2011 so we'll see just how we do then hm?
And you missed the point, at mid range the only time you will land WS AA is catching step. In the same circumstance what exactly is wrong with forwad step ~ ag:A. There's always 3A to catch duck in equal circumstance. Honestly WS AA is made completely redundant by utilising his forwad step. I appreciate his side and backstep are poor but that is no excuse to forget how to move.
You would do well to remember that.
As it happens a UK team is being assembled for Cannes 2011 so we'll see just how we do then hm?
And you missed the point, at mid range the only time you will land WS AA is catching step. In the same circumstance what exactly is wrong with forwad step ~ ag:A. There's always 3A to catch duck in equal circumstance. Honestly WS AA is made completely redundant by utilising his forwad step. I appreciate his side and backstep are poor but that is no excuse to forget how to move.
You would do well to remember that.
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
hi guys hope i don't upset anyone by what i'm about to say...
if i am one of the players who is considered a hardcore UK player then...
in my opinion if any of us were to play pantocrator competitively, at the level we are at right now, he would win 3-0 in every fight.
i make this point because i would recommend that you guys appreciate that a top french SCIV player is posting on this site and helping the community. you should obviously stand up for your opinions and argue constructively about Seig tactics, but if Panto says that the 2A+B mixup fails because reactable, it's safe to say that he's right. the guy has bags of experience against the very best players in the world.
pls don't start aggressive arguments against this kind of player; i wish the likes of kayane or keev would give as much input on here as pantocrator is giving
if i am one of the players who is considered a hardcore UK player then...
in my opinion if any of us were to play pantocrator competitively, at the level we are at right now, he would win 3-0 in every fight.
i make this point because i would recommend that you guys appreciate that a top french SCIV player is posting on this site and helping the community. you should obviously stand up for your opinions and argue constructively about Seig tactics, but if Panto says that the 2A+B mixup fails because reactable, it's safe to say that he's right. the guy has bags of experience against the very best players in the world.
pls don't start aggressive arguments against this kind of player; i wish the likes of kayane or keev would give as much input on here as pantocrator is giving
Put it this way, if I can consistently land this OUT OF A CANCEL against hardcore players then it is unreactable. It is possible to block if you at least half expect the move, but off gut reaction alone - no, not when masked properly.
I have fought offline French & Belgian players as well as UK and granted, the general standard is much higher, look at what Malek did to the Americans at EVO.
It does not however, mean that they do not make mistakes. Just because of your nationality it does not determine your ability. Take Belial as a prime example. Compare him to the general Russian standard.
It means nothing, unless one on one a player can take me offline, I won't accept them to be better than me just because they are French.
I realise Pantocrator is a good Sieg, but the fact that he is considered top level does not make him unbeatable and by no means gives him any right to consider himself above an entire nationality.
I honestly don't care if he's considered good. He deserves the same treatment as any other 8wayrunner. Born in France does not mean VIP.
As I said the UK are making a Cannes team, we'll see how well we do considering we 'don't exist'.
*Yes I did take that jibe personally*
I have fought offline French & Belgian players as well as UK and granted, the general standard is much higher, look at what Malek did to the Americans at EVO.
It does not however, mean that they do not make mistakes. Just because of your nationality it does not determine your ability. Take Belial as a prime example. Compare him to the general Russian standard.
It means nothing, unless one on one a player can take me offline, I won't accept them to be better than me just because they are French.
I realise Pantocrator is a good Sieg, but the fact that he is considered top level does not make him unbeatable and by no means gives him any right to consider himself above an entire nationality.
I honestly don't care if he's considered good. He deserves the same treatment as any other 8wayrunner. Born in France does not mean VIP.
As I said the UK are making a Cannes team, we'll see how well we do considering we 'don't exist'.
*Yes I did take that jibe personally*
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
yeah i know, you should make your points, he's not unbeatable, i'm just saying that it's a good thing you got a guy like PC posting on the seig forums, don't put him off coming back by dismissing his advice
But I'm not dismissing it - he is talking about a straight 2A+B, I mean a cancel masked one under battle pressure. There is a difference.
I don't dismiss anyones opinion, provided what they say works offline. I respect PC as a fighter but if I disagree, I will do, as I would any player.
Put it this way, theory and practice are different matters and although top level players minimise the difference, there is one. Trust me, I see it often enough.
I don't dismiss anyones opinion, provided what they say works offline. I respect PC as a fighter but if I disagree, I will do, as I would any player.
Put it this way, theory and practice are different matters and although top level players minimise the difference, there is one. Trust me, I see it often enough.
Tsubasa28
[10] Knight
Couldn't agree more... I've been playing Panto (online) for close to 2 1/2 years and he clearly demonstrates a level of awareness that only comes from high level play.
Sure, you might win a round or two or even a game initially, but his ability to adapt is second to none.
Dismiss his nuggets of knowledge at your peril.
LP
Premium Member
Not getting involved in the little spat, but, yes, that isn't a mixup at all
Just wanted to note that Sets vs. Sieg is TERRIBLE for Sieg.
Just wanted to note that Sets vs. Sieg is TERRIBLE for Sieg.
babalook
[10] Knight
2A+B and 1B that's one of the slowest mid low mixups ive heard of i'd like to see this attempted
Try it out - cancel out of chief, his arm movement in the cancel coupled with the vaguely similar wrist movements make it tricky to distinguish the two, untill it's too late at least.
Think of it like how NM players use 4A+B cancel into 1A, it's a similar principal to that.
And sets is an awkward matchup for anyone... I fear that damn iUmbrella ~_~
Think of it like how NM players use 4A+B cancel into 1A, it's a similar principal to that.
And sets is an awkward matchup for anyone... I fear that damn iUmbrella ~_~