Yoshis low-game

Yoshi and no good lows? o.O

A friend of mine mains Yoshi, and lows are what he keeps on catching me off guard with, eg. mix up between manji dragon fly into B_K and then follows up with his hammering to ring me out the stage, if it doesn't ring me out - rinse and repeat. lol
 
KazuyaSasa said:
Yoshi and no good lows? o.O

A friend of mine mains Yoshi, and lows are what he keeps on catching me off guard with, eg. mix up between manji dragon fly into B_K and then follows up with his hammering to ring me out the stage, if it doesn't ring me out - rinse and repeat. lol
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Once you get used to seeing his lows from his stances... they arent really that good... They are pretty easy to read as well... his best low is iFC 3K but most people cant do the instant... so anytime they see him duck they know hes probably doing to 3K...

Yoshis lows really arent that great! but if they hit they are ! lol its just getting them to hit on top players thats the difficult part... but you can wipe the floor with noobs and yoshis low mixups all day
 
Good players fail for Yoshi's lows as well, it's one of he reasons why Yoshi is difficult to beat. It's a matter of how well a player uses their mixups. Don't forget there's also REF A, which is really awesome.
 
RedDjinn said:
Sweet... Well miss a 3B on me and your toast... let me put it that way... Cause I play yoshi therefore your eating 3B, 33B, B+K everytime you miss...

I could almost SWEAR I punished yoshi's 3B with maxi's 6A+B... maybe the data is wrong ...
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I'll go along with your logic. You miss a FC3K and DGF K against setsuka, you'll eat 33B, bA, against NM and sieg you'll eat flapjack/WS , etc. So I don't see what your point is, sure 3B is unsafe, but that definitely does not make it a bad move. If you really wanna play that safely, stop doing FC3K or DGF K, hell you shouldn't even be using 33B B+K to get in. But if playing that safely is your cup of tea, just use 2A+B for wake up.
 
eltoshan said:
I'll go along with your logic. You miss a FC3K and DGF K against setsuka, you'll eat 33B, bA, against NM and sieg you'll eat flapjack/WS , etc. So I don't see what your point is, sure 3B is unsafe, but that definitely does not make it a bad move. If you really wanna play that safely, stop doing FC3K or DGF K, hell you shouldn't even be using 33B B+K to get in. But if playing that safely is your cup of tea, just use 2A+B for wake up.
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lol i wasnt talking about playing safe?? damn all this whole shit was over just because i was letting you know if you happen to do one extra 3B at the wrong time and they stand up and block your getting punished thats ALL I WAS SAYING... i'm not saying dont use it... i'm saying there are better options for when people are on the ground...
 
I understand where you are coming from, but I feel there's a little more merit to 3B on wakeup than most people give credit to it. It covers rollers, sleepers, low guards, and okizeme.

I really don't think there are many better options against rollers and sleepers, but let me know what I'm missing. I'm not saying to throw 3B out at random, that's the cost to the mixup, if your opponents are aware of the risk of eating a 3B, DNK on wakeup for blocking low, they will be more inclined to block standing, mix that up with iFC3K...

Just keep in mind of the people that can punish hard against a blocked 3B, namely Sieg, sets, yoshi, cassy, and sophie. BTW 3B is -17 on block and Maxi's 6A+B definitely can not punish that. Even if they do block 3B on wake up, your opponent has to be pretty composed under pressure to recognize what just happened and punish appropriately, then you just need to use 2A+B or something.
 
yoshi doesnt even need lows at all for that matter. screw mixups. iMCF is where its at. constant interruptions will scare them more then unsafe lows.
 
RedDjinn said:
Nah not really... Most high level people can see ALL of yoshi's lows on reaction...
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Dude are u kidding me, FC 3K is i19, FC 1K is i17, REF A is faster than i20 as well. Mitsu's 2KB is around the same speed. I've seen good players eat MUCH slower lows than these.
You cannot block these on reaction only anticipation. Do players block 2KB on reaction? NO THEY DON'T. They anticipate it, that's a big difference.

Also 3B is a bit special in wakeup, and hardly replacable. Risky like u said, but say what. What are these alternatives you are referring to?
 
hotnikkelz said:
Dude are u kidding me, FC 3K is i19, FC 1K is i17, REF A is faster than i20 as well. Mitsu's 2KB is around the same speed. I've seen good players eat MUCH slower lows than these.
You cannot block these on reaction only anticipation. Do players block 2KB on reaction? NO THEY DON'T. They anticipate it, that's a big difference.

Also 3B is a bit special in wakeup, and hardly replacable. Risky like u said, but say what. What are these alternatives you are referring to?
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jb gots it covered in this thread. everything u need to know about yoshis oki.

http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35083

as for myself. i personally prefer FC 3K, 66A+B or 9B+K, K if u know they're gonna sleep.

11A, FC 1K (hits rollers), 9A, MED A, all do there job. once i think about it though 3B probably does a good job as well since if they crouch expecting a DGF K or retaliate then you get a free launcher. u dont see to many launchers that hit on the ground.
 
LoL i'm telling you people can block REF A , DRG K 214A and on reaction....

FC 3K is the only one they cant but if your not good at doing it instantly they can block that too...

FC 1K isnt even worth mentioning you do that move your pretty much owned...

REF A isnt hard to block at all... DRG k is simple... FC 3K I block that move when yoshis do it quite more often then getting hit by it....

His lows just arent a strong part of his game... Yes they are useful and if they hit they are great but when they are blocked your F'd.... FC 3K will get you owned... DRG K will get you owned... unsure about REF A but i'm sure it guarantees a throw attempt after... 214A your getting owned... Nothing to argue about really... Just letting you know there are people out there that block all these , cause well i play with one that blocks my lows all day and I'm hella good with mix ups...
 
No one's saying that you can't block 214A on reaction, I mean, come on, the move has like a half second start up time. 214A has a minor left step and huge TC window, you're supposed to use it like Asta's PT. If you base your rating of how good a low game is on the degree of punishability and blockability, most of the cast is just as bad as Yoshi in that department. But Yoshi's lows have the advantage of getting easy guaranteed damage out of them.

BTW if the people you play with are blocking your iFC 3K, you're probably doing it too slowly or doing it too much and getting anticipated.
 
Nope I didnt say they were blocking my iFC 3K i said i was blocking theres....

and I know how to use 214A i was just giving it as another example of if you get it blocked you get owned....

All i'm trying to say is people block his lows on reaction....
 
I still think that Yoshis mix up options are quite vast and shouldn't actually allow for reaction but rather anticipation. Well it works against me that's for sure lol
 
RedDjinn said:
All i'm trying to say is people block his lows on reaction....
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Hahaha, Sheltonv u're not listening to the reasoning. FC 3K is i19!!, if you're blocking it more than it hits it's cuz YOU'RE anticipating it very well and not because u're reflexively blocking it, that's a big difference. It is INSANELY HARD to reflexively block low attacks i19 and faster. This is science....really. What makes people block it is the issue of having to telegraph it a bit by going into crouch. I trick a lot of people with that and they eat my WS A ALL the time.

DGF K is the same way, ppl block this ONLY because DGF B is slow. So they duck, as it's logical, and just get up when they see the animation for DGF B. That's pretty easy.

FC 1K: just frame series is abusable if you're good at it. It's safe, and NCc. My success with it is 50% and it cannot be reflexively blocked.

People eat my REF A almost everytime i use it because i whore the shit out of REF K. That leads me to believe those who block it consistently is cuz it's being used predictably

Lows that will be blocked reflexively are 214A, INT A, 11A, 9A.

Just to point out what i mean, Cervy's 1K is i20, X's 3A is i23, Set's 1A is i22, Lizard's 1K i23. I've send pros eat those moves a lot. All of them slower.
 
lol i'm done talking about this dude... i block yoshis REF A and DRG K all DAY !!!! So does my boy Mick so i'm telling you for the last time... people block these... sounds like your playing too much online...

I never said anything about FC 3K being blocked on reaction if you will read I posted that it was probably the only one that couldnt' be blocked on reaction...

Ha i'm seriously done discussing this... it isnt science its opinion... if it was science I just proved you wrong because Me, Mick, and Nori block those lows even online.... WITHOUT ANTICIPATING ! it isnt a miracle... maybe we have faster reaction times then the people you know... Which is quite possible ;) haha but we have wasted enough space with this! so everyone you win i'm wrong your right i have no reaction time neither does mick or nori... they cant block DRG K or REF A on reaction ;)

haha peaceZ!
 
You dont even need reaction time to block REF A and DGF K. When he gets into either stance block low right away because his mid options from those stances are shit and slow as hell.
 
vi3t_hugh said:
You dont even need reaction time to block REF A and DGF K. When he gets into either stance block low right away because his mid options from those stances are shit and slow as hell.
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Spot-on.

This is basically how I play Yoshi (keeping it very short):

When close, mixing up throw/mids and baiting for CH iMCF (for example with 6A, which is -3 on block). I'm using lows very sparingly and sometimes mixing up with some SDRG. I also think FLE is really good.

He has, arguably, the best mids in the game (much thanks to iMCF) and really good throw-game, so I try to utilize that as much as possible. As said, this is just how I play him.

In SC4, I've never liked to use lows with Yoshi. The only one I use now basically is FC3K, but that's not to often either because of safety (also depending on what character I'm facing).
 
DGF K- duck once he goes into stance. DGF B is easy to spot.

REF A- duck once he goes into stance.

11A-slow

214A-slow

9A-slow

his low game attacks are all unsafe and readible. you dont need any mad skills or reflexes to be able to block them. only FC 3K and 2K are unreadable.
 
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