The AMAZING SC4 Online General Discussion Thread

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I'm just chiming in here to say, ShadowCollector, despite what other intelligent things you may have said, I stopped reading once you claimed to be able to block 2kb on reaction. No doubt other good players will have that same nose-crinkling and headshaking kind of response.

I say this because I'm hoping you are confusing what "on reaction" means; and maybe you are blocking it on anticipation- which is different. Humans generally don't go around blocking unseeable i19 lows consistantly, even the best players.
 
HRD said:
what? WHAT? really?

Maxi is easily stopped in several places. Unless mix-ups are part of your game, your not gonna get very far with maxi. Its only until you truley understand his 6 stances, 5 GBs and utilize them in conjunction with the rest of his good move list (which is quite small), only then will you be able to achieve what I have with him.

Trust me homes, I can count on one hand who plays Maxi effectivly online. All the others are button mashers or geniuses in training.

Some of the other moves you listed, arent even lag tactics. I wonder if you are a little confused on what lag tactics are. Some moves will work offline and online. Mitsu's 2KB for example. Its i19. If you can block that on reaction offline...best make sure you get to every major tourney you can, cause you gonna win. Online use of those moves are just frustrating, because they are pretty much free, but you cant call em lag tactics. You have to call it reading your opponents patterns and block things on antcipation

HRD
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I completely agree with Shadow, I mean if it's pretty laggy, his options and almost 24/7 access to devasting lows which allow more mixups, It can beawkward to interrupt.
 
I'd say Maxi because he is trashy to begin with. low-mid level play = UNSAFE COMBO SPAAAAM
High level play = Poke... poke.... poke... poke... poke.... poke... poke...

Or if you want a good character that takes no skill - Amy
 
bushy21 said:
I completely agree with Shadow, I mean if it's pretty laggy, his options and almost 24/7 access to devasting lows which allow more mixups, It can beawkward to interrupt.
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Maxi has no devestating lows. Specially ones used as a mix up. The only one that might be viable to your argument is his RC KK (low sweep) that is considered a lag tactic. But other than that Maxi is 85% high hits, a few good mids.

Aside from those, maxi is interuptable with most everyones quick 2A in the right spot. If its feeling akward to you to try and interupt him, then you lack the match-up knowledge. I would see that, and take advantage with a quickness!!

@shadowcollector....Id like you...hell....all yall to take a gander at this http://8wayrun.com/threads/online-play-facts-and-basics.5692/. It goes into detail about what lag tactics are and also has some good guidlelines and facts about online play. AFTER and ONLY AFTER yall read this will I participate in this conversation any further. Cause here comes that "road" I was talkin bout.

I went and merged this thread with where it probablly should have been in the first place.

HRD
 
HRD said:
Maxi has no devestating lows. Specially ones used as a mix up. The only one that might be viable to your argument is his RC KK (low sweep) that is considered a lag tactic. But other than that Maxi is 85% high hits, a few good mids.

Aside from those, maxi is interuptable with most everyones quick 2A in the right spot. If its feeling akward to you to try and interupt him, then you lack the match-up knowledge. I would see that, and take advantage with a quickness!!

@shadowcollector....Id like you...hell....all yall to take a gander at this http://8wayrun.com/threads/online-play-facts-and-basics.5692/. It goes into detail about what lag tactics are and also has some good guidlelines and facts about online play. AFTER and ONLY AFTER yall read this will I participate in this conversation any further. Cause here comes that "road" I was talkin bout.

I went and merged this thread with where it probablly should have been in the first place.

HRD
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lol dude if your online lets say 4 bar shitty connection, he is trashy as hell, you cant argue against that
 
bushy21 said:
lol dude if your online lets say 4 bar shitty connection, he is trashy as hell, you cant argue against that
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sure I can....but Im not gonna. Cause I already told you why. You lack character match-up knowledge.
However I do know what your saying. A 4 or even a 3 bar connection to another maxi player is not difficult for me. Because I have the character knowledge I need to deal with it. It does get a little weird and sometimes youll get hit with something stupid, but hey...chalk that up to playing online.

HRD
 
Just curious but uh...why is Cervantes on the "braindead" list? Played without whoring out super slow lows(and not even 3AB since it hits offline in moderation) I'm just curious what you say since I'd played Cervantes as my main online for about 6 months straight before transitioning to offline and can say I have to work the exact same in both enviorments.
 
HRD said:
sure I can....but Im not gonna. Cause I already told you why. You lack character match-up knowledge.
However I do know what your saying. A 4 or even a 3 bar connection to another maxi player is not difficult for me. Because I have the character knowledge I need to deal with it. It does get a little weird and sometimes youll get hit with something stupid, but hey...chalk that up to playing online.

HRD
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ok how about we have a match on a less than favourable connection, and how about I spam 214a+k, i think it is, then 22k or 88k what ever it is.
 
bushy21 said:
ok how about we have a match on a less than favourable connection, and how about I spam 214a+k, i think it is, then 22k or 88k what ever it is.
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ooohhhh....it finally happend. The conversation went south.

I think you mean 3A+K? Id be able to deal with it as I need to. I would space you out so you seldom have a chance to use those moves. Both of them are considered lag tactics when not used in the proper spot. It can be delt with sir, in one way or another. I will say it again. It boils down to character match-up knowledge. Other characters that like to back dash against maxi, give him the most trouble. I take it you play setsuka? that is a 8:2 match-up in your favor. You theorecally should be kicking my ass. Cause you have better tools than I do.

Hes another kicker....what if I told you that Mitsu's 1A is an acceptable move in certain situations. Would you think Im crazy? Mitsu's 2kB also, is NOT considered a lag tactic. However online you must ANTICIPATE the move rather than REACT to it. Its the same dealing with it offline as well. Anyone that says they can block/GI/JI it on reaction is one of 2 things, a super smart genius that will be winning all the major tourneys.....or......is a complete liar.

To get back to your original question..........I firmly believe that it is possible to play just as trashy with ALL the characters. I can take setsuka and spam 2A+B & 11A's all day and be a spammer, I can throw out maxis 3A+K, RC KK and 22K's all fuckin day.

This whole trashy character online play debate has been going on forever. Ive seen it, dealt with it and heard it a million times, and things still dont change. Im gonna go ahead and guess you didnt take a look at the link I posted bout "online facts & basics" cause you might have enlightened a little. I put it in my sig for your enjoyment

HRD
 
HRD said:
ooohhhh....it finally happend. The conversation went south.

I think you mean 3A+K? Id be able to deal with it as I need to. I would space you out so you seldom have a chance to use those moves. Both of them are considered lag tactics when not used in the proper spot. It can be delt with sir, in one way or another. I will say it again. It boils down to character match-up knowledge. Other characters that like to back dash against maxi, give him the most trouble. I take it you play setsuka? that is a 8:2 match-up in your favor. You theorecally should be kicking my ass. Cause you have better tools than I do.

Hes another kicker....what if I told you that Mitsu's 1A is an acceptable move in certain situations. Would you think Im crazy? Mitsu's 2kB also, is NOT considered a lag tactic. However online you must ANTICIPATE the move rather than REACT to it. Its the same dealing with it offline as well. Anyone that says they can block/GI/JI it on reaction is one of 2 things, a super smart genius that will be winning all the major tourneys.....or......is a complete liar.

To get back to your original question..........I firmly believe that it is possible to play just as trashy with ALL the characters. I can take setsuka and spam 2A+B & 11A's all day and be a spammer, I can throw out maxis 3A+K, RC KK and 22K's all fuckin day.

This whole trashy character online play debate has been going on forever. Ive seen it, dealt with it and heard it a million times, and things still dont change. Im gonna go ahead and guess you didnt take a look at the link I posted bout "online facts & basics" cause you might have enlightened a little. I put it in my sig for your enjoyment

HRD
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Ok thats cool man, a little friendly debate is ok you know, no need to come across defensive *
 
HRD said:
This whole trashy character online play debate has been going on forever. Ive seen it, dealt with it and heard it a million times, and things still dont change.
HRD
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What are you talking about? Hilde and Algol are true non trashy characters.

Death Combo's and Bubble shielding is perfectly Legit.

On a serious note I don't seem to have a problem with maxi in terms of lag tactics but in terms of how annoying fighting him online can be if someone is button mashing. The entire concept of Block/Punish gets harder if they are throwing out random A's and K's.

That being said Maxi does have several weaknesses in his character if you use him or fight against long enough. You can see several combo breaks but that doesn't mean it's always a guaranteed opening (A lesson I learned the hard way after fighting HRD >_>) not to mention his general range (and frame) disadvantage against certain match-ups like Kilik or even Raphael in some aspects.

When I hear the word trashy I split it into 3 types (Lag tactics, How they play in general, or Overall learning curve)
Yes anyone can be trashy with any character (I.e. Spamming 236 A over and over with lizard or using 66a alot.) but that comes down to the player.

I was asked a question. Which character do YOU think is trashy? I gave MY opinion and people are free to agree or disagree to their heart's content. Now we also must learn to separate the characters how they are online from how they are offline (to my general knowledge online/offline are two different games). Online i personally feel Siegfreid/Mitsu/and Ivy are the scum of the earth (More so than Hilde or Amy). Offline after playing against the computer on Edge master and watching some offline tournament videos I know they aren't that hard to deal with if you can get in the head of your opponent.

That being said it is kinda like HRD says. Why purposely play a watered down version of a game online? Personally I don't mind online but the characters we feel are "trashy" most of the time is Acceptable offline (except for amy.)
 
Pocky-Yoshi said:
Someone like Jhannux is iffy with me. I'll be friendly, but please don't expect super awesome legit stuff if the connection is unbearable. If you lag me, I will frown but I won't whine for online is online. So the lag spammers can do as they please. Getting to the point. This one time long ago, he whined of my 214A of Yoshi since I know my connection with him is also iffy. Luckily I calmed the guy down with common sense of online lag>legit skill.
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BlackRoseVale said:
Doom Combo is so legit, Hilde is totally not banned offline in tourneys >.> As for Algol... same pretty much applies.
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Of course getting a free Ring out off one Mistake is totally reasonable. Damn french players and their Ban happy system.

I agree that's why I stay away from lag lows now since I know they get punished offline (Jonny has been destroying and punishing me for even attempting to do lag tactics with rock.).

Oh Cass...I still feel that she has to work to win more than sophitia online and offline but hey I'm just some online scrub who knows nothing >_<
 
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