Balance Patch Vote: Ivy Discussion

[WhYYZ]

I'm not sure what setup or combo this is supposed to be referring to in SCV.

That would be the combo in SCV.
I saw it in a Combo video of SCIV back in the day and used it ever since. It's pretty much a ring-out tool but I''m not sure what the input was in SCIV...

 

[MyDearValentine]

To he honest , I think they should change the CS input. Down Up Down Up is just to hard. Im not saying its hard for everyone but most of my fellow Ivy players say so.

 

[K0rN_b4LL]

Nah, that part is fine. I actually have an easier time with this one than I did with the SCIV input. (I know I'm the odd one out on this) Ithink they should make the iCS based on input precision vs. speed since 2/3 of a second is just ridiculous on a stick. Or just give a little more time to get the input properly

 

[MyDearValentine]

I like the SCIV input better but I have to agree with you on that one. they should give you more time to do the iCS.

 

[WhYYZ]

I actually have an easier time with this one than I did with the SCIV input. (I know I'm the odd one out on this)

Same here, been playing Ivy since SC2 and SCV is the only one I can get CS at any point at any time. Input is easier to learn harder to master I guess.

 

[Ryoka]

The comparison to Alpha Pat comes from my conversation with one of the developers in London. I tried to explain that he is broken, has a stupid risk/reward ratio etc and they told me "if someone can do all his combos it's just his talent". I completely disagree with such logic. There will always be people who can master him and he will be practically unstoppable.

Getting off the Ivy train for the moment this essentially is my opinion of Just Guard in a nutshell as far as skewing the effectiveness of moves on paper. Just Guarding against BAs and UAs in particular. -.-

The reason I say aPat and iCS aren't exactly congruent is that aPat has a number of fast, gap-closing JFs with fast setups to back up their collective deadliness. iCS is just a standalone ground throw requiring not just the tech skill, but on point advance planning since it doesn't buffer properly. It has reasonable ways to get countered or otherwise fail and is at least perfectly punishable on whiff.

I for one think that iCS in SC5 is better than in SC4, despite having a larger throw escape window. It create very strong mind games. You only need to show your opponent that you can do CS, then fake the movement into a mid or SS/A+G throw. When you see Ivy doing CS motion, how do you react? From my experience, most of the time people will mash B or duck.

Ok, this I don't quite get since being able to create mindgames with CS doesn't necessitate tapping into the extra strength of iCS. Being able to fake buffer CS then go Mid/A throw out of necessity to mask it isn't necessarily a strength when the alternative is being able to get the throw itself to connect more often with the move being more subtle, and thus have less reason to expect it at any given moment. Mixing it up against their ducking/break habits in fear of SCIV Ivy's command throws wasn't an odd concept even then. I would call it a stretch to use the word "better" to describe iCS in V compared to IV, because in either case it's still guesswork on both parties to connect/get hit by the throws.

 

[MyDearValentine]

Not sure if this has anything to do with the thread but here it goes. Don't you know how you have Pat then Alpha Pat? Pyrrha then Pyrrha Omega? Well I was thinking.....Since people were complaining about Ivy having to many stances. and Once they took them away people were complaining that she only has one stance. How about they make another Ivy but , She has her SC2 move set. The reason I say SC2 specifically is because SC2 was Ivy at her best. If they were to bring this idea to life I say they charge 350-400 points depending on which system you have. I know this idea is kind of weird but ....what do you guys think?

 

[Paranormal_Oreo]

Not sure if this has anything to do with the thread but here it goes. Don't you know how you have Pat then Alpha Pat? Pyrrha then Pyrrha Omega? Well I was thinking.....Since people were complaining about Ivy having to many stances. and Once they took them away people were complaining that she only has one stance. How about they make another Ivy but , She has her SC2 move set. The reason I say SC2 specifically is because SC2 was Ivy at her best. If they were to bring this idea to life I say they charge 350-400 points depending on which system you have. I know this idea is kind of weird but ....what do you guys think?

It doesn't make sense at all storywise. Pat+aPat and Pyrrha+Omega actually made sense.

 

[MyDearValentine]

I know , thats why I said its kind of weird. But to he honest the story didnt mean any sense either. They just focused on Pyrrha and Pat. Without telling what happend to all the other chars. I havent met anyone yet that said that SCV story mode was actually good. But I was just making a suggestion

 

[Paranormal_Oreo]

It made a perfect amount of sense and explained why.

 

[MyDearValentine]

Point Blank. The story was still kinda weak IMO

 

[Kaz]

66B BE on hit is +10~11 but opponent is also pushed far away so you can't fully use the frame advantage it grants you. I'd prefer a KND with a wakeup. This move was designed mostly for stun combos and wall splats, otherwise it has minor uses (I sometimes use it as a punisher and frame trap). A NH launch would probably render 1B BE useless, as 66B has similar speed but more range and can be used from FC.

I initally hated this move but with the frames on hit and block being as good as they are think it has potenital. You can use either 6[A ] or 3[A ] 66A if they are too far away and then for the Bionic thumb like you(lol) it could be decent CS setup. IDK I just like that spending the meter rewards you on hit with big frame adavantage and the potenital setups/traps.Now on the other hand I would rather have 6A,K KND again(I cant do much with these frames). It setup a very nice Tec for 214B with the KND, similar to 3[K ], 214B though not as good(I think 3[K ] 214B is almost un-escapable).

 

[Ryoka]

So.. about that 4A+B, since I forgot that move existed.

Allow it to aGI all weapon-based horizontals, using the same semi-slow GI window it has already.

1) Increase the speed of the second attack so that it can create more "forced block" situations on successful aGIs that knock them back. It does good guard damage but has next to no way to secure hitting an opponent's guard, even when the first attack hits.
2) Make the aGI draw them in instead of knocking them back. Insert a hit in between the first and second attacks as they are so that the first attack can combo into the second, reducing damage if necessary.

 

[Eli123s]

For Ivy CE the damage on that is strong. But I don't feel it should be tone down unless Asta gets nerffed. Asta does more damage and he has the potential to wall combo or ring out if he has meter.

If Asta hits you with full charge bull rush to a wall, he can combo with his CE. Though this generally wont happen my point is Asta can combo with his CE, where as Ivy cannot. Ivy CE can only be used as a mixup.

Asta CE has double the range, hidden startup as his hand glow after the CE and he moves only a bit. Where as Ivy CE is more apparent.

And Ivy must be in your face to use CE, because Ivy CE used at max range can still be escaped by iTC move after the animation.

22_88B BE, I not sure what what stance on this now is, I mean if there is a damage boost I would love that, but I feel the move is like that for the tech trap situations it creates.

6[B ] 2_8 It to be a bit more safer, not safe, but safer that -28. What I like is it not as amusable as it was in SC4, but the risk/reward is so imba vs some of the cast.

But thing I want address is 4A+B, GI window to make it start earlier so I can be used against mid horizontal strings.
4A+B B doesn't combo might be a nerf, but I thinks it ok because I feel this move should be used in the beginning of a match, as the opponent cannot GI, and JG this is not reliable. This move is good for guard damage.

WR B+K the more I used this move the more I start to love this. Even in SC4 I would always use christmas tree, even though it was unsafe as hell, I just love the laugh, when they took out the laugh I didn't want to us it anymore. But after talking with ring I am really liking this move. So now I feel the move is fine.

But the things I want fixed is her command throw damage.
CS should be 80
iCS should be 90
SS should be 70


For the general damage of her attack I feel its good, besides she score a lot of damage on counter hit. And since this game is more aggressive based, there will be opportunities to score the CH damage.

 

[bushindu]

1. This doesn't need a thread
2. BAN IVY

stfu you use viola and alpha you have no say on the matter

she really needs her gltiches fixed
bK sometimes i've had her do full animation without actual move hitting
CE needs to be toned down on damage
give 4A+B a use, if your gonna cut her move list down as much as they did, at least give use to the majority of her moves
would be cool if 3K hold had GB or something

 

[Synraii]

So do you =P

 

[bushindu]

not really anymore, I only use Ivy to play, and go trolling online with viola