In which order does one master Soul Calibur?

JTK

JTK

[09] Warrior
When I say master, I mean two things: One would be to rise up to tournament level, and the other would be enough knowledge of the characters to play all of them decently, and eventually be able to play Edge Master with little to no difficulty against some of the toughest players.

This would be my guess. Please feel free to tell me that my order is crap as long as you provide the right order yourself.

1. Find a character you like.
2. Learn every move of that character and practice them all extensively until it becomes second nature.
3. Learn and practice every combo of your character every day.
4. Battle a lot and learn the moves of other characters and familiarize yourself with how the flow of battle goes.
5. Acknowledge that you will lose a lot and learn to accept defeat.
6. Battle online or with friends who play a lot and learn their tactics and apply the ones you like.
7. Learn and master punishment and frame data.
8. Become a competitive player in tournaments and win.
9. Begin mastering other characters of the game

As a side note, 8 and 9 could be switched in order.
 
Last edited:
Withvees said:
4 and 5 should also add "Acknowledge that you will lose a lot and accept defeat"
Click to expand...
Did you read my other post? Lol

If you haven't, that is one that I struggle with the most. I don't mind losing to a good player, but I hate losing to people who play cheap.

In previous fighting games, the only way I found a way around that is to go online and literally lose on purpose to break the edge of losing. I had to go through this process every day, lose on purpose to finally overcome my problem. After a week or so, I went on to become one of the best players on that game. Maybe I need to do the same for this game as well.
 
Well when I first started playing, I started out with a 10% win rate. I know win% don't mean too much in offline competition but that's still a really low number. I didn't let that discourage me tho. I kept losing until i fixed my flaws and now my win% is like 73 from just straight grinding.

This mindset of accepting defeat made me realize that there is no such thing as cheap play. If someone beats me with one or two moves, then that's how bad I am. All they need is one or two moves to beat me. If you think it's cheap play then you won't accept the fact that it's a valid way of winning and you won't find a way to counter it because you're so stuck on thinking your gameplan is still better than the opponents.
 
Withvees said:
Well when I first started playing, I started out with a 10% win rate. I know win% don't mean too much in offline competition but that's still a really low number. I didn't let that discourage me tho. I kept losing until i fixed my flaws and now my win% is like 73 from just straight grinding.

This mindset of accepting defeat made me realize that there is no such thing as cheap play. If someone beats me with one or two moves, then that's how bad I am. All they need is one or two moves to beat me. If you think it's cheap play then you won't accept the fact that it's a valid way of winning and you won't find a way to counter it because you're so stuck on thinking your gameplan is still better than the opponents.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right. My mind cannot wrap around this in the heat of battle, though. Like a mental block is keeping me from understanding it.

What usually plays in my mind is "after months of practicing to get this far, I got beat by somebody who kept repeating 2K? This is ridiculous!"

Regardless I like your outlook on losing. I will first try my strategy of getting over losses, because that is the only thing that has worked for me last time, and I have tried many things.

I think also to inspire me I will read DrakeAldan's 'importance of losing' thread every day as well.
 
If I had to start all over again, it'd be a very loose process.

1. Find a character you like.
2. Play.
3. Watch the replays of when you lose. Try to find out what you did wrong.
4. Play again. Try to use what you learned from 3.
5. Repeat 2-4 indefinitely.

...

6. Go to tournaments for the hell of it, unless it's financially impractical.


I don't believe too much in hard practice. It's boring, it's tedious, it prevents you from seeing real experience against others, and most importantly, it's not sustainable- at least for most people. Instead of helping you, it will probably just contribute to burnout.

If you do practice, don't practice the entire moveset; don't practice every combo; don't memorize the frame data.
Just practice your shortcomings.

If you get a feeling like "I should have used 1B here", then you can start implementing that later.
If you drop a combo ingame, then you can focus on practicing that for a short period (2-5 minutes) before starting a play session (and not worrying about the ones that you hit 80% of the time).
If you get in a tight situation, watch the replay afterwards and then look at the frame data to see what's going on.

If anything is practice, it's applying strategies and getting yourself to react properly against an opponent. I remember that learning to punish Viola's 1A+B was like pulling teeth. You can't really "practice" it in training, since if you know it's coming, obviously you're going to react consistently, but that's not how it works in the field- so I just had to grin and bear it until I started pulling it off.
Knowing the right thing to do and actually carrying it out are two different things. The latter is true practice, I think, and that requires another person.

Not that I'm saying training mode is bad- you need it to gather information and test various scenarios, and I have spent more time in training mode than playing the actual game- I just don't believe in rote repetition much.

It's about accumulating knowledge over time. You don't need to get it all at once, you can just add to your repertoire little by little, day-to-day- which means you can play the game without being so hard on yourself.
 
speaking from my own experience:

1 pick a character you like
2 run through the moves list
3 learn all of the mechanics of the game only to never use them
4 practice or look for combos online and test them out
5 scrub it out
6 look up tutorials or guides on said character
7 scrub it out again and see if you've improved (over the course of this it helps to back on your replays)
8 find better players
9 scrub it out again only to find out you don't contend with them
10 actually learn how your character is supposed to be played and actually learn what moves are useful
11 scrub it out but this time play less like a scrub (over the course of this you begin to learn certain matchups)
12 watch drakealdan's videos
13 scrub it out again against better and more well-known players
14 become depressed after getting owned
15 start from scratch with your character and re familiarise yourself with games mechanics
16 watch more of drakealdans videos
17 learn frame data (in the course of this you learn which moves are unsafe etc)
18 scrub it out again and find yourself drastically improving
19 listen to soulcasts
20 scrub it out using these tips (by this point you should have a general idea of the matchups and how to use the game mechanics to get around them)
21 buy SCV guide by futurepress and refer to this from time to time (optional)
22 carry on from there
23 learn a new character - repeat steps: 2, 4, 6, 10, 17, 19 and 20 (optional)
 
-pick patroklos
-learn how to do 66b+g and spam for more knees
-learn to 1k and then 11k
-learn the 66b combo because its borderline broken
-learn to spam bb to put on pressure and when you're not sur what to do
-learn to spam the above
-learn how to use each of the moves tactically so you won't be predictable.
-finally learn how to combo into CE because patroklos gains brain dead meter.
-ALSO don't forget to overkill with 66b+g for maximum swag points. The goal isn't to add insult to injury, but to intimidate your opponent which makes them fuck up more. If you add on tea bagging, that would be beyond fantastic


Then you become top player like @Blueboyb

I forgot to mention that I do all this and I consider patroklos a secondary

Also, I wish I could say I was kidding but I'm 100% serious. I beat CFW 5-0 doing this
 
Last edited:
LockDownZ said:
-pick patroklos
-learn how to do 66b+g and spam for more knees
-learn to 1k and then 11k
-learn the 66b combo because its borderline broken
-learn to spam the above
-learn how to use each of the moves tactically so you won't be predictable.
-finally learn how to combo into CE because patroklos gains brain dead meter.

Then you become top player like @Blueboyb
Click to expand...
actually considering picking up Patrollkolos Kappa
 
DrakeAldan said:
If I had to start all over again, it'd be a very loose process.

1. Find a character you like.
2. Play.
3. Watch the replays of when you lose. Try to find out what you did wrong.
4. Play again. Try to use what you learned from 3.
5. Repeat 2-4 indefinitely.

...

6. Go to tournaments for the hell of it, unless it's financially impractical.


I don't believe too much in hard practice. It's boring, it's tedious, it prevents you from seeing real experience against others, and most importantly, it's not sustainable- at least for most people. Instead of helping you, it will probably just contribute to burnout.

If you do practice, don't practice the entire moveset; don't practice every combo; don't memorize the frame data.
Just practice your shortcomings.

If you get a feeling like "I should have used 1B here", then you can start implementing that later.
If you drop a combo ingame, then you can focus on practicing that for a short period (2-5 minutes) before starting a play session (and not worrying about the ones that you hit 80% of the time).
If you get in a tight situation, watch the replay afterwards and then look at the frame data to see what's going on.

If anything is practice, it's applying strategies and getting yourself to react properly against an opponent. I remember that learning to punish Viola's 1A+B was like pulling teeth. You can't really "practice" it in training, since if you know it's coming, obviously you're going to react consistently, but that's not how it works in the field- so I just had to grin and bear it until I started pulling it off.
Knowing the right thing to do and actually carrying it out are two different things. The latter is true practice, I think, and that requires another person.

Not that I'm saying training mode is bad- you need it to gather information and test various scenarios, and I have spent more time in training mode than playing the actual game- I just don't believe in rote repetition much.

It's about accumulating knowledge over time. You don't need to get it all at once, you can just add to your repertoire little by little, day-to-day- which means you can play the game without being so hard on yourself.
Click to expand...
I have to say, since I first wrote this topic, I have tried everything people have suggested here, and your process has worked great for me.

To summarize everything, I basically went with "play instead of train and learn as you go." But I also took the concept of working in primary moves for my characters before going out and fighting.

I thought that I was "observational" enough to realize where my mistakes were in mid-fight, but I was so very wrong. I thought watching every single replay would take hours, but it's only about a 10-15 minute process for 8 matches. Not to mention how very helpful those short minutes are. I have been telling my friends to watch their replay data when they ask me questions about their style.

Right now I am going through this process over and over again learning new characters. I only focus on one character at a time, and occasionally fight with the others I've learned for review. My goal for knowing when to move onto another character is the completion of Legendary Souls in under 30 minutes. If you know a better idea of when it's ok to switch characters, please share with me.

After I complete that goal, I am going to find which characters I truly enjoy playing and play loads of people developing punishment data. I think that would be a good way to go.

Thanks again everybody for your input.
 
Last edited:
JTK said:
My goal for knowing when to move onto another character is the completion of Legendary Souls in under 30 minutes.
Click to expand...
THE A.I. IS A WASTE OF TIME. HUMAN COMPETITION IS WHAT MATTERS FOR SELF-IMPROVEMENT. NOBODY GOOD WILL SERIOUSLY MEASURE THEMSELVES WITH THE A.I. BECAUSE THE A.I. DOES THINGS THAT ARE UNREALISTIC FOR HUMANS TO DO. THE ONLY 1-PLAYER MODE YOU NEED IS TRAINING MODE, IN ORDER TO TEST FRAMES AND TEST SETUPS WITH THE RECORD FUNCTION. BESIDES THE RECORD FUNCTION, JUST PLAY REAL PEOPLE.
 
MONEYMUFFINS said:
THE A.I. IS A WASTE OF TIME. HUMAN COMPETITION IS WHAT MATTERS FOR SELF-IMPROVEMENT. NOBODY GOOD WILL SERIOUSLY MEASURE THEMSELVES WITH THE A.I. BECAUSE THE A.I. DOES THINGS THAT ARE UNREALISTIC FOR HUMANS TO DO. THE ONLY 1-PLAYER MODE YOU NEED IS TRAINING MODE, IN ORDER TO TEST FRAMES AND TEST SETUPS WITH THE RECORD FUNCTION. BESIDES THE RECORD FUNCTION, JUST PLAY REAL PEOPLE.
Click to expand...
I play real people. I just have no way to determine when it is time to move on to a new character. Playing different characters has been helping a lot due to the fact that I learn how they work. I'll narrow it down to 1-3 characters after I have played them all to really focus in and become good with them.
 
SOME PLAYERS MAIN A NEW CHARACTER AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME, AND THEN MAIN ANOTHER, AND THEN ANOTHER. IN TERMS OF PRACTICALITY, I THINK IT'S BEST TO SPECIALIZE IN ONE CHARACTER AND LEARN THE GIMMICKS/DIFFERENCES IN ALL CHARACTERS AS YOU GO. EACH CHARACTER IS DESIGNED WITH THEIR OWN GIMMICK OR STRENGTH IN MIND.

LEARNING A CHARACTER BY USING THEM YOURSELF OR BY PLAYING AGAINST SOMEBODY ELSE USING THEM, WILL ULTIMATELY LEAD TO THE SAME KNOWLEDGE BUT FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. IN THE END, EACH CHARACTER HAS A FINITE SET OF POSSIBILITIES IN HOW THEY CAN BE PLAYED. STUDYING PATTERNS IN CHARACTERS' FRAME DATA WILL REVEAL HOW THE PROGRAMMERS WANTED A LOT OF GENERIC/UNIVERSAL MOVES TO OPERATE, FOR EXAMPLE.


MOST PEOPLE WANT TO CHANGE MAINS BECAUSE THEY GET BORED OF THE CHARACTERS THEMSELVES. BUT I FOCUS ON PROFILING EACH PLAYER'S FIGHTING STYLE BECAUSE I CAN NEVER GET BORED OF UNDERSTANDING HOW PEOPLE THINK. NOT TO MENTION THAT PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR APPROACH TO THE GAME OVER TIME, AND SO KEEPING UP WITH THIS META GAME IN PEOPLE'S PSYCHOLOGIES IS SEEMINGLY NEVER-ENDING.

IN SHORT: A CHARACTER'S POTENTIAL CAN BE FUN TO IMAGINE, BUT THE WAY ONE SPECIFIC PERSON CAN CHANGE THEIR STRATEGY TO ADAPT TO ANOTHER SPECIFIC PERSON'S STRATEGY OVER A PERIOD OF DAYS, MONTHS, OR YEARS CAN SEEM NOTICEABLY MORE ABUNDANT BY COMPARISON.
 
MONEYMUFFINS said:
SOME PLAYERS MAIN A NEW CHARACTER AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME, AND THEN MAIN ANOTHER, AND THEN ANOTHER. IN TERMS OF PRACTICALITY, I THINK IT'S BEST TO SPECIALIZE IN ONE CHARACTER AND LEARN THE GIMMICKS/DIFFERENCES IN ALL CHARACTERS AS YOU GO. EACH CHARACTER IS DESIGNED WITH THEIR OWN GIMMICK OR STRENGTH IN MIND.

LEARNING A CHARACTER BY USING THEM YOURSELF OR BY PLAYING AGAINST SOMEBODY ELSE USING THEM, WILL ULTIMATELY LEAD TO THE SAME KNOWLEDGE BUT FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. IN THE END, EACH CHARACTER HAS A FINITE SET OF POSSIBILITIES IN HOW THEY CAN BE PLAYED. STUDYING PATTERNS IN CHARACTERS' FRAME DATA WILL REVEAL HOW THE PROGRAMMERS WANTED A LOT OF GENERIC/UNIVERSAL MOVES TO OPERATE, FOR EXAMPLE.


MOST PEOPLE WANT TO CHANGE MAINS BECAUSE THEY GET BORED OF THE CHARACTERS THEMSELVES. BUT I FOCUS ON PROFILING EACH PLAYER'S FIGHTING STYLE BECAUSE I CAN NEVER GET BORED OF UNDERSTANDING HOW PEOPLE THINK. NOT TO MENTION THAT PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR APPROACH TO THE GAME OVER TIME, AND SO KEEPING UP WITH THIS META GAME IN PEOPLE'S PSYCHOLOGIES IS SEEMINGLY NEVER-ENDING.

IN SHORT: A CHARACTER'S POTENTIAL CAN BE FUN TO IMAGINE, BUT THE WAY ONE SPECIFIC PERSON CAN CHANGE THEIR STRATEGY TO ADAPT TO ANOTHER SPECIFIC PERSON'S STRATEGY OVER A PERIOD OF DAYS, MONTHS, OR YEARS CAN SEEM NOTICEABLY MORE ABUNDANT BY COMPARISON.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry. I am pretty tired while reading this so I am not sure I fully understand.

What I gathered was it would be wise for me to choose one character and stick with him/her while learning how to play the game. Learn the frames, apply the punish data, and eventually get to the point where I start seeing people's mentality during the fight. If I am wrong on that, correct me. Either way I will re-read the post after I get some rest.

I purchased Soulcalibur 5 initially to learn every single character in the game, mainly to keep myself busy on my free time. My ultimate goal is to become good enough to play Edge Master and beat the average player. I have heard/read from several sources that choosing and mastering one character is better than being fairly well with several characters.

When I started playing, I looked up which character is good for beginners, and all signs pointed to Mitsurugi or Pyrrha. That wasn't my choice, that was someone else telling me who I should play.

My goal is to play all of the characters in depth to decide for myself which one I like, then take some time making an educated decision as to who I want to play as a main. The only way I can really do that is by understanding the characters. The only way I can understand the characters is to play them and see for myself just how comfortable I am with playing them. While Mitsurugi is a good character and someone I excel with, I am just not 100% sure that I am ready to settle down with him until I have explored all of my options.

ZWEI is the character I am currently training with now, and I want to pull my hair out. He's slow, he has little range, and EIN is basically his lifeline. The thought has crossed my mind several times to move on to the next character, but I won't feel satisfied until I can get to a certain level with him.

I don't know if I am making much sense, but I don't have the ability to play a character for 5 minutes and say "Yeah, this is the one I am going to devote the rest of my life to." I am also taking into consideration that the character I like may not appear in the next game, so it's always good to be prepared.
 
IT'S CERTAINLY POSSIBLE TO BE DECENT WITH EACH CHARACTER. THE ISSUE IS SIMPLY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE BETTER WITH SOME CHARACTERS MORE SO THAN OTHERS. OFTEN TIMES, PEOPLE HATE THE FACT THAT THE CHARACTER THEY ARE NOTICEABLY BEST WITH IS ALSO A CHARACTER THEY DO NOT PARTICULARLY LIKE.

WHETHER YOU LIKE A CERTAIN CHARACTER OR NOT, OR WHETHER YOU USE WHAT MAXIMIZES YOUR PERSONAL STRENGTHS OR NOT, IT IS UP TO YOU. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN VALUE SYSTEM. FOR ME, WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS TO DEMONSTRATE THAT I AM MORE SKILLED THAN THE OPPONENT, REGARDLESS OF HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE CHARACTER'S PERSONALITY. COMPETITIVE GAMING IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT A DEMONSTRATION OF SUPERIOR FIGHTING ABILITY.
 
1. Play Edgemaster
2. Switch to Damp
3. Stop copying @Ooofmatic
4. Yomi level 300000
5. Make someone retire
6. Win the game, make money, go home
 
Last edited:
Soul Calibur is Easy to Learn, Hard to Master

I will also Second that playing people (no matter how good or bad) is better than practice mode or playing against the AI. ie Practicing aPAT and Cervy JFs is great, but actually learning when to apply those moves and punish accordingly in the heat of battle is another story.

In terms of multi characters, you will never be able to be Master more than 2-3 Characters (unless your me).

That said, it is absolutely MANDATORY that you have secondary characters. Why? Becuase every characterin Soul Calibur has very different tools/stances/frames/range/mixups and therefore each character will play vastly different. Playing a different character and coming back to your main will
1) Enable you to understand your opponent better, and what they will be "going for" depending on character.
&
2) Actually enhance you main characters play, having now learned an"new way of Calibur" and adapting it to your main.

And yes. There is no such thing as cheap in this game. Boring shitty play styles yes, but not cheap.

Soul Calibur actually takes place in between the attacks/movement. Its when things are neutral and you decide "This is what I'm going to do".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom