How does weapon balancing work?

[HydroJames]

My proposed idea for how weapon balancing should work in Soulcalibur...

• If a weapon has long reach and high damage, then it is slow.
• If a weapon is fast and strong, then it has short reach.
• If a weapon has speed and range, then its attacks will be weak.

 

[SC_Yin]

Common sense the thread.

 

[damn-I-Suck]

Yes this is common sense theory, but some characters are way skewed. Raphael in scV for example, had better than average range, average speed, and absolutely ass for damage. Yes he had 6bb which has good range and is i12, but again it's shit for damage and linear as fuck. He also suffers from a lack of good horizontals.

And then there's Mitsurugi. Decent range, great damage, and decent speed, along with high combo aptitude and better horizontals than Raphael. 1B is too good. Not too many weaknesses.

Phyrrah has it all, nuff said.

I didn't mention safety because I don't know enough about those 3 to comment on that.

I could go on and on about the shitty balance of SCV, But IMO the last SC game with decent balance was sc2, but even THAT game had some huge gaps.

So far, Xiangua already seems broken in sc6, but that's just first impressions, no one has any idea about frame data yet.

 

[MichaelJackson]

There's a lot to consider when thinking about balance, and it's not just focused around the weapons. Often it's up to the character using the weapons which determines a lot of the statistics in the end (such as Sophitia vs Cassandra who both are sword/shield users).

Anyway, you've got:

• Range
• Speed
• Damage

...but also consider:

• Horizontal Coverage
• Vertical Coverage
• Normal Hit Properties
  
• Counter Hit Properties
• Recovery Time
• Throw Shifts
• Stances
• Stagger
• Guard Crush
• The Wielder of the weapon (back to the Sophie vs Cassie thing)
  
• ...probably more

 

[Frayhua]

So far, Xianghua already seems broken in sc6, but that's just first impressions, no one has any idea about frame data yet.

No, Xianghua isn't broken. She's just insanely OP with 10-0 matchups because of high damage & 3 of her aGIs makes ALL Horizontals & ALL Vertical Attacks not matter on Lethal Hit leading to huge combos. The best solution is to make the Lethal Hit's of 4A+B, A+B, & 6A+B only available in Soul Charge Mode ONLY to for better balance. Reducing damage would be bad because you'll get a scrub like FallenAngelII crying nonstop about Leixia not being the best charcter in the when X was the best in SCI - SCIII. You also would get a fraud like Kayane saying Leixia isn't viable just because she isn't OP anymore with 10-0 matchups. My solution is the best because I know Xianghua's style better than anyone. Even if X had Leixia damage, it wouldn't matter to me because Xianghua can make all moves not matter.

 

[damn-I-Suck]

What you call OP I call broken. Just different language describing the same thing

 

[Frayhua]

What you call OP I call broken. Just different language describing the same thing

When Xianghua gets nerfed, you'll thank me.

 

[damn-I-Suck]

When Xianghua gets nerfed, you'll thank me.

Me and everyone else

 

[garjian]

There's a lot to consider when thinking about balance, and it's not just focused around the weapons. Often it's up to the character using the weapons which determines a lot of the statistics in the end (such as Sophitia vs Cassandra who both are sword/shield users).

Anyway, you've got:

• Range
• Speed
• Damage

...but also consider:

• Horizontal Coverage
• Vertical Coverage
• Normal Hit Properties
  
• Counter Hit Properties
• Recovery Time
• Throw Shifts
• Stances
• Stagger
• Guard Crush
• The Wielder of the weapon (back to the Sophie vs Cassie thing)
  
• ...probably more

Good frame advantage on common attacks
Pushback
Movement. Backdashes, lunges, sidestep attacks, etc.
aGIs like Amy or Kilik's Asura Thing

Fighting games are far more complex than your typical RPG in which that original triangle would fit. I'm playing Skyrim right now, in fact, and outside of not having a fast, weak, long range Spear type, that's basically how that works... but even there, there's stagger power to consider.

Is a fast, powerful, long-range character overpowered if everything they do is launch punishable on hit and has no pushback?
Is a fast, powerful, short-range character balanced if they have no ability to approach the opponent and their attacks push the enemy so far away they can't maintain pressure?

Oh, also, forcing an entire character to fit a particular mould like this makes for inflexible characters that are easily exploited. Characters tend to have attacks with a wide variety of ranges and speeds... its what they excel at that defines them.