tkainfinite
[08] Mercenary
I totally forgot about this move. I can't remember the input for this, but how do you do this in SCIV? And are the inputs the same in VI?
Talim is almost as bad as SC4 ver.
- Thread starter thinkingofaname
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ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
It's a fun setup that has situational uses. It may be deadly in Soul Charge though since AS B becomes a guard break launcher, lol.
But I dunno, the more I look at her stuff, the more I think she can handle a lot of things thrown at her. She's pretty strong defensively with RE cancelling and stance evades. Has a decently fast A+B guard break that also crouches highs. Has a strong Reversal Edge option and whiff punisher in Wind Cannon. Her wall combos are going to be strong too. Especially if she corners you in Soul Charge. Her CE is pretty great. Honestly, I feel like it should be punishable on block. 1B seems legit as a low even though the range is short.
She's got some stuff to where, as I said, she might be an ok character this time. I do hope the 66A and AS (K) reverse kick stuff gets looked at, mostly the AS (K), but as of typing this, I feel pretty good about her toolkit.
But I dunno, the more I look at her stuff, the more I think she can handle a lot of things thrown at her. She's pretty strong defensively with RE cancelling and stance evades. Has a decently fast A+B guard break that also crouches highs. Has a strong Reversal Edge option and whiff punisher in Wind Cannon. Her wall combos are going to be strong too. Especially if she corners you in Soul Charge. Her CE is pretty great. Honestly, I feel like it should be punishable on block. 1B seems legit as a low even though the range is short.
She's got some stuff to where, as I said, she might be an ok character this time. I do hope the 66A and AS (K) reverse kick stuff gets looked at, mostly the AS (K), but as of typing this, I feel pretty good about her toolkit.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
I didn't even see this post... weird...
Anyway, it's a just frame. You do AS K and hit G the moment her legs extend after the flip. Input is the same in both games.
thinkingofaname
[09] Warrior
All those flashy combos are in soul charge, and against people who don't know how to block. Soul charge is a extremely valuable resource, and frankly value of a safe reversal super is better. Have you seen how bad Talim's super is ? Its basically a crap version of yoshi's.
Why I say Talim is bad? Because none of her core issues were resolved.
Unsafe (kills any competitive period). Talim moves should never be unsafe to begin with because none of them has any special property to warrant it.
No mixup. 1b does 2k damage and easily stepped (back + side both works). Why does character like Ivy get 35+ damage lows + track + knockdown + very hard to punish due to low profile? In that fancy video, there were no mix up period, nothing is preventing people from just blocking everything ...
Range. Well this one we can deal with since that's how she is, but again why is a short ranged character both unsafe and no good lows?
Realistically how do you fight someone who just back dash G, and can block your gimmicks and punish? Also with a reversal super that can hit anything i20+ on reaction?
Why I say Talim is bad? Because none of her core issues were resolved.
Unsafe (kills any competitive period). Talim moves should never be unsafe to begin with because none of them has any special property to warrant it.
No mixup. 1b does 2k damage and easily stepped (back + side both works). Why does character like Ivy get 35+ damage lows + track + knockdown + very hard to punish due to low profile? In that fancy video, there were no mix up period, nothing is preventing people from just blocking everything ...
Range. Well this one we can deal with since that's how she is, but again why is a short ranged character both unsafe and no good lows?
Realistically how do you fight someone who just back dash G, and can block your gimmicks and punish? Also with a reversal super that can hit anything i20+ on reaction?
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
The "flashier" combos are in Soul Charge, sure, but she still has a few decent ones off of 22A, & CH AR A.
2(A+B) hold wallsplats and gives you a free Wind Cannon wallsplat. I'm sure she gets something off a 3B or CH FC 3BB wallsplat as well.
Why do you feel Talim's CE is bad? If it's the slower startup, then... ok I guess. But that's really not as big of a deal as I thought, given the tech jump property, the fact that it's horizontal Mid, the fact that it can be done from back turned, and that it appears to be safe on block. Has deceptive range as well.
Well remember, there's also Guard Gauge to consider. Talim in SC4 had a solid Guard crush game. Not top 5 or anything, but solid. Enough to make people want to move at the wrong times. Maybe her guard crush game is still good and we just don't know which moves to use for that yet. She also has grabs. And yes, I know, GI/RE beats grabs, easier to break, got it. But they are still usable tools to mixup with your Mids.
Now, as for 1B... If it turns out that 1B is actually minus on hit, then I will 100% agree with you that it's a useless move. It felt pretty safe-ish on block in the beta, maybe a FC 2A punish here or there, but who knows. Maybe it's actually stabbed or worse.
1B for me worked best on oki situations. (Like after her 4A+G throw, or 3B~4BB combo for instance.) They can't get up and step it in time, so it has to be blocked or possibly rolled. (If it's rolled you're still safe). So the frames on hit will be KEY in determining whether or not 1B is any use. I do wish it did more damage, but if the frames on hit are good, then it's very much usable.
I can't argue about her safety. I think she needs to have safe tools up close as well. But it's possible that making use of transitions on block will limit or remove the opponent's ability to punish properly. Again, needs thorough testing.
I guess your definition of good lows is different from mine. Like, I think her AR A is actually a very good low.
It TCs under highs. It's very low negative on block, (I could step verts after it from crouch). It gives a guaranteed followup poke to set up a mixup on NH. On CH it gives a full combo and can lead to ring outs. You can cancel it for people who like to GI or RE. Etc. The downsides are that it's stance only and the move itself is slow, but that's just figuring out where to place it. Her 1B, (if plus), will also be a good low, imo. 1K is annoying since it tracks step and hits grounded, but the frames aren't known yet.
The range thing is just how she is, but again, I refer you to the RE cancelling. It is very useful in dealing with ranged bullshit. You build meter for each swing you tank and you don't have to enter the rock-paper-scissors guessing game. It's not foolproof, but it's far beyond anything else she's had in the past for dealing with range. I feel that's the LEAST tested aspect of her right now, and I haven't really seen anyone besides me even try it out in the beta videos going around.
Reversal supers aren't just a TALIM problem though. I've said many times, I think the way they handle CEs in this game is bullshit. But unless they tone them down in a patch, we're stuck with them. Even top tier have to worry about getting reversal super'ed.
Trust me, I'm not being naive in the slightest. I feel like I understand the character's general strengths and weaknesses better than most here. I'm just more open to the possibility of having to apply things differently.
I can't say she WON'T suck, but I CAN say we'll know for sure in about a week what we're truly working with.
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MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
IS REVERSAL SUPER IN REFERENCE TO CRITICAL EDGE WITH AUTO-GI?
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
Good question. That's what I was assuming he meant, but I dunno.
Talim JP
Talim & SoulCalibur supporter
I’m comin off a retirement cause Talim wasn’t in SCV & am just glad to get her back.
I’m gonna fight w/whatever she has.
I know oosaka, Decopon, KT Voldo & others on PS.
I’m not gonna complain to them (or anybody) but AM gonna show what I can do w/her.
I’m gonna fight w/whatever she has.
I know oosaka, Decopon, KT Voldo & others on PS.
I’m not gonna complain to them (or anybody) but AM gonna show what I can do w/her.
GranmasGotGame
[10] Knight
I would say that, in regards to her CE, I think it's honestly pretty good. The fact that it TJ's like frame 2 (speculation) and can be done from BT means that you can completely nullify certain Mid/low or High/Mid mixups on reaction as well as being able to CE out of strings. On top of that is the fact that it is + on block meaning that you can just throw it out any time you want to and not have to worry about being punished for it. Another thing is since it is 3 hits with decent guard damage, you can break someones guard with either the 1st or 2nd hit, and then they will get hit by the rest of the CE (it is heavily scaled down though); and as ZeroEffect said before, it picks up off the ground. Meaning there are probably setups which guarantee CE when someones guard is red and is on the ground during oki.
Tech Jump
Guard Burst
My only reservations with it moving forward is whether or not it jails in between hits on guard, and or whether or not it can be GI'd by a guarding opponent AFTER the cinematic has played; neither of which we will know until this weekend.
I definitely have to acknowledge that she is lacking some safe moves, though that doesn't mean she doesn't have any good safe moves. Off the top of my head:
4AK *
3A *
6AA * and 6AB *
2B
4BA ? and 4BB (possibly even just 4B)
236
A+B
6A+B
44AA
66A+B *
44B
BT A+B *
BT 4A+G *
WNF A *
WNF K ?
WNC AB
WNS K
WNS B ?
WNS A ?
I put *'s next to safe moves that I think are explicitly really good and ?'s next to ones that I am still uncertain as to how safe they actually are but am leaning towards thinking they are safe. I think overall she could use a couple of tweaks (buffs) but right now still has potential.
A separate issue that I think is somewhat valid is not having any good normal lows. I would say that some of her normal lows are decent, as ZeroEffect said (once again lol) 1B and 1K seem to be her best contenders for neutral game lows. Granted, they don't really seem threatening enough to make her opponent want to duck all that much imo. Having said that, with WNF A being as powerful as it is now (definitely her best low outside of SC) and WNC AKA being a solid mixup in her WNC stance I think that when you're able to get into stance things become quite a bit better for her in terms of incentivizing people to want to block low.
Tech Jump
Guard Burst
My only reservations with it moving forward is whether or not it jails in between hits on guard, and or whether or not it can be GI'd by a guarding opponent AFTER the cinematic has played; neither of which we will know until this weekend.
I definitely have to acknowledge that she is lacking some safe moves, though that doesn't mean she doesn't have any good safe moves. Off the top of my head:
4AK *
3A *
6AA * and 6AB *
2B
4BA ? and 4BB (possibly even just 4B)
236
A+B
6A+B
44AA
66A+B *
44B
BT A+B *
BT 4A+G *
WNF A *
WNF K ?
WNC AB
WNS K
WNS B ?
WNS A ?
I put *'s next to safe moves that I think are explicitly really good and ?'s next to ones that I am still uncertain as to how safe they actually are but am leaning towards thinking they are safe. I think overall she could use a couple of tweaks (buffs) but right now still has potential.
A separate issue that I think is somewhat valid is not having any good normal lows. I would say that some of her normal lows are decent, as ZeroEffect said (once again lol) 1B and 1K seem to be her best contenders for neutral game lows. Granted, they don't really seem threatening enough to make her opponent want to duck all that much imo. Having said that, with WNF A being as powerful as it is now (definitely her best low outside of SC) and WNC AKA being a solid mixup in her WNC stance I think that when you're able to get into stance things become quite a bit better for her in terms of incentivizing people to want to block low.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
How would this nullify Highs or Mids at all?
I... dunno about a lot of this, Nate, lol.
I know for a fact 236B was unsafe in the beta. 6A,A can be ducked so that's also unsafe. 44A,A I remember seeing get punished somewhere. 44B is up in the air depending on transition frames. WC AB ehhh I dunno. I think it's too early to make calls on these things unless you've actually been punished for it.
I need this game asap, just to put any and all theories to bed.
GranmasGotGame
[10] Knight
Lol, I guess out of context I can understand the confusion. In my head I saw it working mainly against grapplers/characters that have setups for throw/mid mixups. For example that one attack throw that Ivy has, where if it CH's you, you are left back turned and at disadvantage right next to her. You could hold block while reacting to the throw with CE. Not sure how doable this example specifically is in practice, but the potential is there, which is more what I was trying to get across. Was trying to share some thoughts more on the utility of the move and potential rather then its upfront and immediate usage.
236B was meant to be 236[.B.] since I believe charging it makes it safe. A very step-able move if you throw it out willy nilly, sure, but still a safe situational move iirc.
6AA can be ducked, true, but I was more putting it in conjunction with 6AB since I'm not sure if you can option select by ducking and reacting to the B variant. I would still argue that since 6AA is one of her better moves since it gives hella frame advantage going into stance, and it's variant 6AB gives solid damage if even just the B portion connects. Not "safe" in the traditional sense, but with some conditioning, you may be able to get people to not want to duck the string.
44AA was honestly just a hunch, thought I remember it feeling safe but I guess I was wrong
44B is also a bit of a hunch, lol
WNC AB I am almost positive is safe. Once again, could be wrong, but I believe I had a couple people try to AA punish it and I was able to guard.
Guess I should have clarified in the previous post that all of this is partially speculation, and partially based off beta gameplay in terms of the safe moves that she had. Wasn't trying to say everything I was saying was fact lol, just some feelings based off of playing a couple handfuls of people that had varying experience in Calibur.
EDIT:
apparently if you type [B.] without the period in there, it bolds everything after it lol, hence why my previous post was missing the [B.] in 236[B.] and why half of it was bold.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
I just put it in parenthesis. But yeah, I'm guessing max charged 236(B) is safe.
Destinizish
Now Sleep Forever
Not sold on Talim yet, but played a lot of her tonight.
She's definitely better than SC4. I think someone's forgetting just how bad SC4 Talim was. At least her stances feel threatening now. Soul Charge gives her amazing tools, CE tech jump is super quick and feels like it's usable on reaction. TBH the whole night she felt like an upgraded SC4 Talim. Also WNF B is tasty. Super satisfying to use, not too hard to set up and can WNF can be used as a TC. This completely shuts down Taki's ranged poke that she can possession rush you from. Once it's in startup just WNF duck the projectile and B her as she's approaching.
Still think I'm gonna end up a Mina main though, unfortunately. But Talim seems like a pretty decent character to keep in the pocket.
She's definitely better than SC4. I think someone's forgetting just how bad SC4 Talim was. At least her stances feel threatening now. Soul Charge gives her amazing tools, CE tech jump is super quick and feels like it's usable on reaction. TBH the whole night she felt like an upgraded SC4 Talim. Also WNF B is tasty. Super satisfying to use, not too hard to set up and can WNF can be used as a TC. This completely shuts down Taki's ranged poke that she can possession rush you from. Once it's in startup just WNF duck the projectile and B her as she's approaching.
Still think I'm gonna end up a Mina main though, unfortunately. But Talim seems like a pretty decent character to keep in the pocket.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
dude... after what I've seen, even I might have to main Mina
thinkingofaname
[09] Warrior
Slightly safer than SC4, and lost all her threatening lows. With her 6B command change, she literally has no punish of any kind against anything that FC + push back (which is a lot of good mid)
B+K B is 3B punishable on block, your opponent can do at least as much damage to you as if B+K lands. Most of her damage mid are still unsafe as hell, 66A+B is the only only exception. However you must go into stance for follow up, and its NOT safe on block if you do. For such a slow and low range mid, it should be a lot better.
6BB is still a joke. Gerald has a similar move that is NC and does like 70 damage, though unsafe. Meanwhile Talim's 6BB is NCC, very unsafe on block, and even if you manage to fish the CH, it still does less damage than Gerald's. Like seriously how is this balanced?
Talim need A LOT more to compete. All these little buffs nerfs mean nothing because range/keep away has been heavily buffed. Out of the 4-5 characters I checked out she is by FAR the worst.
Unless there is some secret tech Talim will remain garbage tier and tournament unviable.
B+K B is 3B punishable on block, your opponent can do at least as much damage to you as if B+K lands. Most of her damage mid are still unsafe as hell, 66A+B is the only only exception. However you must go into stance for follow up, and its NOT safe on block if you do. For such a slow and low range mid, it should be a lot better.
6BB is still a joke. Gerald has a similar move that is NC and does like 70 damage, though unsafe. Meanwhile Talim's 6BB is NCC, very unsafe on block, and even if you manage to fish the CH, it still does less damage than Gerald's. Like seriously how is this balanced?
Talim need A LOT more to compete. All these little buffs nerfs mean nothing because range/keep away has been heavily buffed. Out of the 4-5 characters I checked out she is by FAR the worst.
Unless there is some secret tech Talim will remain garbage tier and tournament unviable.
tkainfinite
[08] Mercenary
Finally got to look at Talim's moveset in VI, and compared to IV it is overall better but some moves feel really awkward to pull off.
A,A,A+B (unless I map the A+B, I end up doing either the A or B)
22-88 A, Blade Cyclone. (because of it's input I find myself using this more defensively than aggressively)
Wind Sault (K)
Her follow ups air kicks, lock at 2 hits? : (
Is there a follow up to her 6K? I'll have to check the other threads. It really feels useless other than the fact for a very satisfying finisher where they fly across the stage after using it.
Talim's command grab; Monsoon Season is that only done though backturn? : ( !
The Wind Charmer grab really feels worse that IV, often not connecting.
Can you slightly delay her AABA, AABB? (I haven't gotten to try it out yet.)
I really miss IV's 6B-- What are some fast ways to get into back turn? (If she had that old Wind Charmer 2 if i recall correctly from II, that would have been very useful.)
I haven't really tested out her while in Soul Charge, but I feel really mixed about it.
Yes, when she's in Soul Charge, she can apply more pressure, and have flashier combos. But doing so when you activate it pushes them away.
I've noticed that smarter players tend to take this opportunity to stay back and play keep away until Soul Charge runs dry. So while you enter her Soul Charge, you have to find a way to get back into range. (Does soul charge freeze or continue to drain while in reversal edge sequence?) Defensively, it's push back is great for the reset when pressures being applied on you, but for her range, I feel her critical edge is a better option. With this said, I often find myself just saving my meter for the Critical Edge with the bonus heal. (Any tips on when it's best to activate her Soul Charge- as in is there a way to activate it and still have them relatively close?) If Talim healed a little bit while entering soul charge, I'd probably take more risks into using her critical edge. Those little healings have really helped me survive critical edges .
It could just be that I am used to the controls for IV and that I still have yet to adjust myself.
Ivy, Groh, and possibly Yoshimitsu at the moment I find the most difficult to deal with. Hard finding solid moves to interrupt the latter two's speedy attacks.
ZeroEffect317 senpai, halp. Thanks for the reply in advance. xD
A,A,A+B (unless I map the A+B, I end up doing either the A or B)
22-88 A, Blade Cyclone. (because of it's input I find myself using this more defensively than aggressively)
Wind Sault (K)
Her follow ups air kicks, lock at 2 hits? : (
Is there a follow up to her 6K? I'll have to check the other threads. It really feels useless other than the fact for a very satisfying finisher where they fly across the stage after using it.
Talim's command grab; Monsoon Season is that only done though backturn? : ( !
The Wind Charmer grab really feels worse that IV, often not connecting.
Can you slightly delay her AABA, AABB? (I haven't gotten to try it out yet.)
I really miss IV's 6B-- What are some fast ways to get into back turn? (If she had that old Wind Charmer 2 if i recall correctly from II, that would have been very useful.)
I haven't really tested out her while in Soul Charge, but I feel really mixed about it.
Yes, when she's in Soul Charge, she can apply more pressure, and have flashier combos. But doing so when you activate it pushes them away.
I've noticed that smarter players tend to take this opportunity to stay back and play keep away until Soul Charge runs dry. So while you enter her Soul Charge, you have to find a way to get back into range. (Does soul charge freeze or continue to drain while in reversal edge sequence?) Defensively, it's push back is great for the reset when pressures being applied on you, but for her range, I feel her critical edge is a better option. With this said, I often find myself just saving my meter for the Critical Edge with the bonus heal. (Any tips on when it's best to activate her Soul Charge- as in is there a way to activate it and still have them relatively close?) If Talim healed a little bit while entering soul charge, I'd probably take more risks into using her critical edge. Those little healings have really helped me survive critical edges .
It could just be that I am used to the controls for IV and that I still have yet to adjust myself.
Ivy, Groh, and possibly Yoshimitsu at the moment I find the most difficult to deal with. Hard finding solid moves to interrupt the latter two's speedy attacks.
ZeroEffect317 senpai, halp. Thanks for the reply in advance. xD
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
You can delay the 3rd hit after the AA, but you have to commit to the final hit in her AABA/AABB strings.
She still has her SC4 6B, but the input is 2B now, which is awkward and takes away a bit of it's use as a fast punisher.
The safest way to enter Soul Charge is after a knockdown, tbh. But you don't always have that chance. Sometimes you need to use it to get someone off you and you'll have to deal with that spacing.
As for those characters, I'm not familiar enough yet with them to give a good response, so.. sorry, lol. Maybe @GranmasGotGame @ShenChan or @Kura can answer those?
All in all, I'm going to try labbing some more to see about her frame game and what she can punish things with. I'm liking 4AK as it's fast 30 dmg for quick pokes. Her 66A is a frame trap on hit with WNC AA and WNC K as a mixup. But it's still a guess whether they step the kick or duck the highs.
66A seems faster than in SC4. It's guaranteed on post-GI regardless of "impact level"
thinkingofaname
[09] Warrior
To those that are wondering why am I so negative about Talim, because she sucks and is not viable, that's the reality.
Take a look at Mina, a character who was as bad as Talim in SC4.
Mina get 81 damage off any whiffed high (FC B+K), even AA. Yes you heard it right, for ducking AA she makes you eat 81 damage. Talim can't even punish it (lulz), even sophy can not punish it fully (tip range stab, only 30 damage). If that whiffed high happens to be a throw, mina get 100+ damage, I'm not even joking. This is no meter and no soul charge.
Mina's 3AA is a TRACKING MID, combo on counter AND natural combo at 2 characters away, she gets 68 damage on it and its SAFE on block, you can't even 2A it AND it push back so you are mostly out of throw range. Why is this so good you ask? Basically its a move that says (block or die), its tracks and you can not backstep it, if you try any movement you lose 25% of your hp. Did I mention it FC too?
Mina can ring you out with a un-reactable LOW, from 3 CHARACTERS away from the edge WITH a partial wall. All she needs is to hit the low at tip range. She also get 60+ damage from it otherwise.
BTW all of the above are with basic combos, with JF stuff you can add another 10 damage or so.
Its time Talim player wake up and realize Bamco royally screwed up Talim, or simply don't give a shit. She not only lost many of her combos in SC4 Broken Destiny, she gained almost nothing in return (vs good players). Plus universal changes to soul charge and backstep that severely punish short range characters.
From past history Bamco stop giving a shit after the 1st month, let them know how bad Talim is. She can be a viable character just like Mina, maybe good even. However you stay silent thinking oh maaaybe those 30 dmg mid with no range is somehow viable ... it will be a repeat of SC4.
At BARE minimum Talim need ALL of her tools back from her past versions, including all the aGI from backstance, semi-safe 22A, plus all her combos from WC present in SC4BD. She will at least be viable, not good, just viable.
Take a look at Mina, a character who was as bad as Talim in SC4.
Mina get 81 damage off any whiffed high (FC B+K), even AA. Yes you heard it right, for ducking AA she makes you eat 81 damage. Talim can't even punish it (lulz), even sophy can not punish it fully (tip range stab, only 30 damage). If that whiffed high happens to be a throw, mina get 100+ damage, I'm not even joking. This is no meter and no soul charge.
Mina's 3AA is a TRACKING MID, combo on counter AND natural combo at 2 characters away, she gets 68 damage on it and its SAFE on block, you can't even 2A it AND it push back so you are mostly out of throw range. Why is this so good you ask? Basically its a move that says (block or die), its tracks and you can not backstep it, if you try any movement you lose 25% of your hp. Did I mention it FC too?
Mina can ring you out with a un-reactable LOW, from 3 CHARACTERS away from the edge WITH a partial wall. All she needs is to hit the low at tip range. She also get 60+ damage from it otherwise.
BTW all of the above are with basic combos, with JF stuff you can add another 10 damage or so.
Its time Talim player wake up and realize Bamco royally screwed up Talim, or simply don't give a shit. She not only lost many of her combos in SC4 Broken Destiny, she gained almost nothing in return (vs good players). Plus universal changes to soul charge and backstep that severely punish short range characters.
From past history Bamco stop giving a shit after the 1st month, let them know how bad Talim is. She can be a viable character just like Mina, maybe good even. However you stay silent thinking oh maaaybe those 30 dmg mid with no range is somehow viable ... it will be a repeat of SC4.
At BARE minimum Talim need ALL of her tools back from her past versions, including all the aGI from backstance, semi-safe 22A, plus all her combos from WC present in SC4BD. She will at least be viable, not good, just viable.
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Frayhua
[14] Master
Let's wait for Kura to do damage with her in SCVI like he did in SCIV.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
Yeah but, Mina's a bad example because she's busted, lol. At least in the damage dept. anyway.
Here's a better question... what exactly do you want Talim to be? And yes, I know you want her BD stuff back and her SC2 stuff back, but I'm strictly talking about playstyle wise. What kind of character do you think she is? Start there when suggesting stuff.
She'll never have Mina or NM range. That's not her design. And believe me, if they DO buff her, it probably won't be done to give her 100+ damage on normal hit moves, either. What they CAN do, is make life a bit easier for Talim players by tweaking the properties of what she already has.
For example, make it so that windsault actually goes over the opponent's head when done up close. Or maybe make wind charmer immune to verticals or during the frames where she's spinning. 1B plus on HIT would be nice.
If anything it'd be little tweaks to her frames or better evasive properties that would be looked at before anything else. Plus we're still ironing out the frames as it is.
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