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ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
all about tone and delivery, man
franman
franman
To consider tone and delivery of any critique is taking it personally rather than seriously; criticisms despite how harsh point out the specific flaws of an individual giving him/her the opportunity to step up his/her game.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
The difference between bashing and critiquing is in your tone and delivery. I get that people shouldn't be overly sensitive to everything, but that's no excuse to be a dick to them.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
Not singling you out btw, just in general.
franman
franman
Just so that we're on the same page here, if I'm being unhelpful by not pointing out or refusing to point out specific areas of flaws I'm straight up bashing; therefore, being a dick. For example, "PlayerX is the worst SC5 playa; he should never be a competitive SC playa." That's what I call bashing.

Bashing can also be a means of bringing sum1 down.

Is that what you agree?
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
I'm saying that you can point out whatever flaws or observations you want without having to be harsh. Like "I think you should work on ____" is better sounding than "you suck at ____" and it means the same thing.

Basically if there's a better way to say something, why not say it that way? Especially if the way you normally say it is turning said person off.
franman
franman
I find at times being harsh to be the better way because it enables individuals to push themselves further than their best more effectively. Sure being nice can encourage ppl, but it doesn't really push that far. What sets ppl back is thought of tone rather than looking past it.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
Depends on who you talk to. I've had more success the other way. I will agree with you, that people should learn to take in knowledge regardless how they feel about it.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
Looking at your recent run of posts on this same topic led me to believe your way wasn't working too well with the person you're referring to. I could be wrong, but I guess what I'm saying is you can't control how they take it. But you could maybe try a different approach.
franman
franman
Sure it depends on the person, but also the kind of situation/environment., I can't control how they feel, but in the end its up to that individual whether to take the red pill and move on towards being a better individual. It can be a tough pill to swallow but it can be so rewarding when you achieve over an obstacle. Of course they can easily take the blue pill and go by their own beliefs.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
True. It's not your fault if the person gets mad and stop listening to you. But, I'd say it is your fault if you've seen you're coming across negatively and choose to be stubborn about it anyway.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
I don't get why you think being a bit less harsh in your criticisms would hold someone back. Can you explain that?
franman
franman
Cuz then the person won't feel as obligated to improve as much; there is not much focus and they won't be pushed to the edge. It's not like critics are doing it for the sake of being harsh; they tell what is true to their hearts content and if its shit then say its shit Gordan Ramsay style. If you work hard to make a hard-to-impress person impressed, then that's even more encouraging and worthwhile.
franman
franman
Also I'm pretty sure harsh critics wouldn't give two shits about how ppl feel; they threw in their 2 cents and if ppl don't want to take it; it ain't much to lose. However, for ppl to take tone into consideration is just as petty as haters making bashful statements. In a world where survival is mandatory, they got to learn to look at things from different but better perspectives.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
Fair enough. Working to impress a harsher critic can be a motivator for some. ...Or that critic just comes across as impossible to please and the person finds other motives. Depends. (Now I'm curious as to what you're critiquing, lol)
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
And lol, of course harsh critics don't give a shit. That's what makes them harsh. I agreed with you that people need to see the info for what it is. My points on tone were for you, as the critic, to consider. Not for the person seeking criticism.
ZeroEffect317
ZeroEffect317
Really depends on how much you wanna help said person tho. If you only care enough to give your 2 cents, then none of this'll matter. But if you actually care to get through to them and can't, maybe a change up is needed.
franman
franman
Usually the situation I'm basing on are forums. Critics critic whatever time is necessary; they took a bit of their time to toss their 2 cents in which is already generous to begin with. And if the seeker asks for more info and they are willing to spend more time throwing a few more cents in, then of course more generosity coming from them.
franman
franman
Critics in general don't give a shit because it is none of their business, but as I've said, for them to toss their 2 cents in is already generous to begin with. Demanding those harsh critics to say nice things is just asking for luxury.