About defense in general

[Spartan_Rambo]

Hi, people, this isn't a complain thread, it's about trying to get a conclusion about the topic, so comments like "go practice... bla bla" won't mean anything lol.
Well, all this comes from the facct that I've been giving a try to Tekken (which I didn't enjoy much), but I've realized that the defense in that game is very, very important while in SC isn't that good for many reasons:
The throws are a 50/50 and have great okizeme and wallsplat-ro propierties the most part, if you do a backstep and they catch you, that attack will be in CH, there are many safe moves that do a lot of guard damage, the punishers doesn't do as much damage as the starters, a guard break is a lost round (or almost depending of the metter), turtling leads to walls or ring out (which means lost round or almost too), the crushers dosn't do as much damage (the ones that do much damage are the starters from TC, and only a few characters have them)
For all this reason I don't see the turtling styles as much rewarding and useful as other games.
What do you think people?
Thanks.

 

[d_b]

two words...

Just

Guards.

Beyond that; throw break, duck/quickstep, GI. and ....
Practice.

 

[IdleMind]

If a game weights defense as a universally preferred skill, it is a natural process to pairing down options less and less. In SC, you have broad categories of moves:

Moves used for mixups
Moves used to kill step
Moves used to catch backdash
Moves used to poke
Moves used to whiff punish
Moves used for guard damage
Moves used to evade
Moves used to aGI

Usually, moves don't overlap more than 2 of these categories at a time, which means that in order to make their specificity not pointless, defense needs to share equal risks with offense. For example: A backstep CANNOT be safe, or you invalidate an entire class of moves categorically. SC has had problems with this in the past, with step-killing moves being pointless due to step-g, and backdash-G being safe as to invalidate many lunge type moves.

The general gist of the system is to force proactive defense measures, i.e. "doing something" instead of using passive multi-coverage defense options. Tekken lets you do the latter, and you will note that the better you get at the game, the less of the game you actually get to use. SC isn't like this, and thank god for that.

 

[Spartan_Rambo]

I agree that Tekken is excesive with that amount of crushers, punishers, and cheap moves in general with lots of uses like the EWGF lol.
I appreciate your answer mate, is very clear, but I still think that penetrate a good defense is very easy in this game, the punishers doesn't do much damage and the throws for example allow the characters to have great 50/50 in their arsenal.

 

[IdleMind]

A good defense in SC5 isn't worried about being "pierced" because it isn't passive. A good defense in SC5 is taking actions which prevent being overwhelmed and having a good situational awareness to get away from those situations where possible.

Think of it like this: standing still is now an equal choice to moving, which is an equal choice to attacking. The default assumptions of what makes a defense good are no longer relevant in the equation of good SC defense. If you want to see what a good SC5 defense looks like, look up Something-Unique's MLG matches.

 

[L_to_Spell]

I think that having good defense in Soul Calibur comes from reading your opponent. Having good defense is countering their offence, not just blocking it.

Example(We are both playing Patroklos):
I see my opponent does 2K after every 2A on hit. I read this and use 9K.
So I just got a 28 damage knockdown with mixup on the wakeup. (236K combo/2A_CE Tech Trap)

Example 2(We are both still playing Patroklos):
My opponent lands a 1K on me. After 1K he always does a BB. I sidestep, and whiff punish.

If you understand the example then you see where I think the most effective defense comes from. If you watch your opponent and see where to counter them you don't need to block all that much. Leads to less guard bursts and keeps you from needing to hope they use an unsafe move for damage while on defense.

Of course somebody will say that you are risking a lot on a read, but if you are in their head it is much more effective defense than blocking then attacking the whole time.

Somebody else will say that a good player isn't that predictable. But every match between good players involves watching the opponent and looking for counters. When I get countered, I counter their counter. If they are a step ahead of me, they counter my counter to their counter. It is a never ending cycle of reads and counters. That is why sometimes, no mixup is a mixup.

So conclusion. The only way the defense in this game would be considered faulty or not viable, is if you think defense is statue blocking and punishing.