Amy Patch wishlist

Angrel-San

[09] Warrior
I think Amy is extremely solid but IMO she does need a little buff.

More damage across the board in most of her moves. She is the character that deals the worst damage in Base (non roses) and in this game which is high damage overall, it can create problems for Amy unnecessarily.

A few more damage points in some of her moves will do. She doesn't needs to be like Astaroth, Nightmare or the like, or even Yoshimitsu but something like Yoshi but with a little less damage than him should do it.

IMHO of course.
 

javert

[03] Disciple
I agree that she needs some buffs but merely increasing the damage would make her feel closer to any regular character, They should emphasize her playstyle by improving her frame data since a lot of it is either too negative or neutral to keep offense or too unsafe and thus highly punishable.

Some frame data improvements:

WRP 214B -10 on block. White roses are already hard to collect so the moves locked behind them shouldn't be balanced as if they were regular moves. I dunno why people call it a launcher since the only thing it combos into is 4B.
4A +4 on hit. Right now, as soon as the opponents finds out he can press buttons after it, it loses a ton of value and can't be used except for hit and run.
RRP 44A +6 on hit, -14 on block.
6AB. The white rose should combo in counterhit. Everybody just blocks this no matter what.
WRP Lilith Parry BBB. The third break attack shouldn't leave that big of a gap. The whole point is to break RE but right now people can release RE after the second hit and interrupt the string.
Make 6K a mid. Way too slow to be a high vertical.
 

Starringrole

[08] Mercenary
(Not everything at once, just some general ideas)

-LP/MP/HP A+B should be usable outside of Soul charge (with reduced damage and no break property) to make sure people aren't carelessly trying to punish her from afar and she can parry and get in if they are with an attack too. 24 damage rather than 41 for no SC version. Break property might not matter too much in this case as means of giving her more ways to deal with RE or GI? Keep her incapable of netting any RRP from this move so the others are valuable too and only have 4BB as her follow up.

-4A could be +2 (I don't think it should go higher?)

-6A to be either safer or faster, this move should be more potent in some aspect so she can try and keep pressure on opponents in close range and control the space whilst trying to fish for WRP.

-6AB on counter hit is a combo (I don't get why it doesn't at least do this)

-WRP MP BBB is good and all but if your dealing with someone using RE its a bit annoying she can't use it against them and you're in the middle of mix up and such. She already lacks good break options in my opinion and if she guesses RE is coming she can't punish during mixup unless she's in soul charge.

-6K should be faster, it just leaves her open mostly and she has to assert pressure and even then its generally not worth it, if it was better it would help her shut people down in close range. That or at least make it hit mid so that she can stop people evading her in close range and get a turn. One or the other.

-3K I don't know what to say in particular, just seems to be something to me that should be entirely safe.

-46B / 46K /46A should all be looked into and have slightly more advantageous behaviors. Her lethal hits are not beautiful unless she actually gets WRP.

-22/88 B+K should be able to combo into AS KB so long as it hits in general (It only does on counter hit currently)

-FC 3K Seems a bit pointless to me.

-FC 3AA perhaps to combo into rising K?

Bugs:
-WR KA into 6BBB sometimes doesn't combo, bug?

I general to me she just seems to have too much a predictable behavior. Making her actually rely on some more moves or making them better would go great lengths.
That and it seems obvious they wanted her to get easy damage out of her roses once she got them, so why not let her have it that way. At least judging by 4BB setups.

Yet again, just ideas for some things I think would be interesting, I haven't considered these things all together.
I do think she should have some room to be a little more careless or combo potential to even out how a lot of characters can heavily abuse her range and waste time she could use on roses. If her patterns are predictable then she should be able to make the most of them whenever she gets them.
 
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linkorz

Super Moderator
I agree that she needs some buffs but merely increasing the damage would make her feel closer to any regular character, They should emphasize her playstyle by improving her frame data since a lot of it is either too negative or neutral to keep offense or too unsafe and thus highly punishable.

Some frame data improvements:

WRP 214B -10 on block. White roses are already hard to collect so the moves locked behind them shouldn't be balanced as if they were regular moves. I dunno why people call it a launcher since the only thing it combos into is 4B.
4A +4 on hit. Right now, as soon as the opponents finds out he can press buttons after it, it loses a ton of value and can't be used except for hit and run.
RRP 44A +6 on hit, -14 on block.
6AB. The white rose should combo in counterhit. Everybody just blocks this no matter what.
WRP Lilith Parry BBB. The third break attack shouldn't leave that big of a gap. The whole point is to break RE but right now people can release RE after the second hit and interrupt the string.
Make 6K a mid. Way too slow to be a high vertical.
Holy fucking shit LOL
 

Thylacine492

[06] Combatant
@Starringrole
-FC 3K

It has better range than her WR options and NC’s into WRP 214B.

The damage off of FC 3K~WRP 214B~RRP 4BB isn’t that much higher than doing the latter two raw, but it’s an easy transition into the string after ducking a high.
 

Starringrole

[08] Mercenary
@Starringrole
-FC 3K

It has better range than her WR options and NC’s into WRP 214B.

The damage off of FC 3K~WRP 214B~RRP 4BB isn’t that much higher than doing the latter two raw, but it’s an easy transition into the string after ducking a high.
I always found the range negligible (mostly), but I didn't realize it could go into 214B!
Thank you for that though, that's actually very helpful! Make's move far more useful than how I used it previously!
 

javert

[03] Disciple
Holy fucking shit LOL
Which one did you mean with that? I mean, if I'm going for a stand up comedian career I need to know the jokes that actually make people laugh.

Guess I know which one: somehow I thought 4A and 4AA were i18 instead of i16. Now +6 on hit would be very dumb on it so I revert the suggestion to +4 on hit as regular 4A.

Not that FC 3K is used a lot, but considering that it is relatively slow it could be buffed to -10 on block.
 

linkorz

Super Moderator
Which one did you mean with that? I mean, if I'm going for a stand up comedian career I need to know the jokes that actually make people laugh.

Guess I know which one: somehow I thought 4A and 4AA were i18 instead of i16. Now +6 on hit would be very dumb on it so I revert the suggestion to +4 on hit as regular 4A.

Not that FC 3K is used a lot, but considering that it is relatively slow it could be buffed to -10 on block.
Just about everything. Amy is easily one of the stronger characters in the game. Pretty much all those suggestions are insane. 6K being a mid could be cool though.
 

Drakogy

[08] Mercenary
I think increasing the utility of 88/22 B+K by allowing it to cancel from 66b, AS, (2,5 & 8) B+K and allowing it to cancel back into AS before the vertical mid occurs would be a good inclusion to her moves set. Not too much different than her moveset/rapier discipline in the console version of SC3.
 

javert

[03] Disciple
OK, with dust having settled time to make another buff list.

Frame data improvements.
  • 5B becomes i12.
  • For 6AB, the white rose is a natural combo
  • 4A is +1 on block.
  • 3A is +11 on counterhit.
  • 214B becomes i12, -14 on block
  • 1B becomes i16, -14 on block
  • White rose throw becomes as fast as red row throw
  • High parry K becomes +4 on block
  • AMS KB is -14 on block

Mechanic improvements
  • All “four” requirements become “three” requirements. For example, three roses per perceptions or three throws for 66 B+K lethal hit.
  • All moves that can transition into parries now can transition into any parry level or even 22 / 88 B+K, for example, AMS B (hold) could cancel into high parry by holding 8.
  • Each parry level can transition into itself (for example, 5B+K can be interrupted into antoher 5B+K).
  • All parries can be cancelled into 22 / 88 B+K.
  • 46K leans Amy forward so the GI lethal hit is 100 % consistent.
  • 46B scales way less to make it not worse than 666B 4BB on RRP.
  • 6K becomes a mid.
  • AMS K has infinite horizontal tracking.
  • The three WRP lethal hit from parries can be done on any combination of levels (three LP As, three MP Ks, etc).
  • Rose throws can be transitioned into Amarillys Spin about 10 frames before the recovery.

Explanation

One of Amy’s unnecessary weaknesses is that almost all the ways she has to get roses come from verticals, so a permanent sidestepper can easily keep her out of achieving roses and limit both her moveset and damage output substantially. The biggest change from frame changes is to allow Amy to punish sidestepping better and force them to mix it with more offense which opens the game to verticals. With 5B becoming i12 and 4A becoming +1 on hit, now there is an option that beats 2A besides parries or GI which can be punished on whiff. With 3A being +11 on counterhit and 1B being i16, the 5 frame gap no longer allow them to step away from 1B, so they have to commit to block low therefore making the stepping game a losing strategy if you call them with 3A and it makes red roses easier to gather when the opponent is stepping sideways.

By now it is basically setlled that white roses are unviable to get at competitive level and therefore white and purple perceptions rarely happen or happen too late in the match. making 6AB a combo on counterhit now there’s also a horizontal route to white roses. On a similar vein, reducing the requirement to three roses would encourage going for purple and makes perfect sense to set one rose per round for shorter or longer matches. All rose perceptions upgrades should stay the same level, since they didn’t really merit adjustments to account for the roses.

Moves that currently transition into a single parry level are quite predictable and straightforward, so being able to transition into any parry level gives more versatility and creativity of mixups. On a similar vein, interrupting a parry into itself makes the opponent second guess about which level to hit and interrupting them into 88 B+K opens more ways to play the character.
 
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