Anti-Algol/Hilde

W

wing_zero

[09] Warrior
We all need anti-Algol/Hilde strats (Especially since Algol is unbanned and the Hilde bandwagon is picking up full steam...), and since Kilik is one of the better characters to pick against both of them it's important that we know what to do against them.

I do have some stuff to get started, but I'm at work now so I'll get to it later :)

Anything that gets posted, the proper sources will be credited with their findings...

Anti-Hilde

What Kilik has to his advantage:
1B
1K
2K
A+B
1/3A+B
46B
Command Throws
wsB/A
Asura
44A/22A/11A
66B
66K mixups
aB

What Hilde has to her advantage:

3K
33K
7K
2A
2K
C2A/C3A
C2B/FC C2B
step/backstep
that freaking low move that stuns (can't remember what it is)
4A+B

Kilik's optimal range: either close (for command throw mixups) or close-mid range (1K,2K 1/3A+B irritation)
Hilde's optimal range: mid to far-mid range

I'll post up more later
 
Regarding Algol and his bubble shield--it's difficult to generalize due to the variable height, speed and size of the bubbles, but I've found that at least with the more linear bubbles if you time the rising action of MO A+B, K so that you avoid his bubbles when rising up Kilik's bo, you often can slide underneath them on the return, hence gaining closer proximity to Algol.
 
Asura counters her charges, but a delayed C3A beats out asura (as well as her step). Kilik vs Hilde seems like a battle of patience and who can read the other better. I know C3A does not beat out While rising B, so you can use that move all you want.
 
I've found that A+K works well against Hilde. It covers step and if she throws out a C3B or another launcher yyou won't get launched because of the tech jump nullifying the combo.
 
Hello Kilik players

My name is Abid Naeem Mozaffar and I have recently registered to this thread to better understand Kilik and his moves in order to play the game competitively. Since there aren't many SC players in my region, I lack MU experience against many characters from the SC 4/BD roster and really want gain a good MU knowledge against them; starting with Hilde as my first.

There are a two things about the Hilde MU that I would like to ask.

First off, I see Kilik:Hilde is a 4:6 ratio in her favor. I want to know the specific things that make this MU a disadvantage for Kilik (eg. he is at a disadvantage because of his _______).
Secondly, I have played with Kilik long enough to know that he has pretty good GI against most if not all of the cast. On reaction, his MO GIs all highs and lows, his BP GIs mids and evades throws and short ranged moves, and his Asura's dance GI's all armed-mids and evades throws and lows. Being mindful of all these GIs and evasions, I would like to know which one would be most useful against hilde (i.e. effectively counters her favorite punisher against Kilik).

Thank you very much for your time.
 
Well just FYI Hilde is currently banned in tournament play so you might be better suited learning other match ups first. But if you really want to know the match up is not overly hard for Kilik but the simple fact that she can seemingly ring you out from any point on the screen is what gives her the edge in the Match up. Kilik can GI her main charge moves C2B C3B C2AA C3A with Asura but it requires extremely good reaction time which only few players have shown. Hilde's charges C2B and C3B can stepped to the left(Kilik's left). Use Kilik's 1K it's good for interrupting her A charges. Use lows like 2A, 1 A+B, 3 A+B. Also grab her to mess with her charge game.

If you haven't seen Hilde at her best look up Ceirnian or RTD playing Hilde on youtube and you'll understand why just about everyone has a bad match up to her.
 
At range against Algol you should be doing 3 things, stepping his bubles, watching for 1A (ranged low), and keeping an eye out for his QI A... If you think about it, (what do his bubbles really do?) It boils down to a ranged attack that stops rushdown, can be used as an anti-air move, juggles opponents in combos, and generates frame advantage by making moves that hit before the bubble safe or in some cases, after the buuble hits into a combo... When the bubbles get parried back, all this is working for you... The best time to GI bubbles is either out of range of Algol's 1A, or at the time Algol throws out an attack (either BB/ 1B/ or 1A) and bubbles just happen to be around... When Algol shoots a slow bubble the property of the bubble changes it into a Vertical attack, otherwise bubbles are Horizontal (90% sure)... Kilik can use 66A and 4 against Algol at range as well as 11A...
Good Algols will seldom use bubbles (most likely either after they knock you down or as a projectile type poke for anti-air and spacing, to be able to react to spacing pressure applied by the opponent... Algol's back dash is left as the problem for players, being able to step as far back as Nightmare's back dash + B+K~NSS all in just one dash... But against ranged characters like Kilik, Algol is locked in using it except at appropriate times... Kilik can 6B, 3A, 2A, iWR A, 1B, iFC 3B, 33A, 22A, 6K, A+K, and 6B+K to stop Algol's back dash at close-mid range, and use 4, 66A, and 11A at far range (with those moves already stopping bubbles, esp. 11A)... And, now that Algol's Bubbles and Back Dash are worked just look at his tools... Without Bubbles and Back Dash what does Algol have in his favor:
1. B*BB (mid range/ good tracking for a vertical/ poke)
2. A*AA (fast high/ mid range/ fastest step catch and poke)
3. 1A (long range/ step catch/ this move does not TC)
4. 3B (mid~long range/ high damage punisher/ fear advantage on first hit/ does TC/ tracks left)
5. 1B (long range/ TC/ staple combo starter)
6. 1K (fast low poke/ on CH is a staple combo starter/ +0 on hit)
7. k6 (vertical attack/ safe spacing tool with good pushback/ mid~long range)
8. FC 3B (TC [1-15]/ fast (i15)/ safe and might be a body attack)
9. 2B+K (high damage main poke/ KND on hit/ good SCD)
10. 2A*FC 2A (standard SC4 2A attack)
11. WR B (high damage bubble combo launcher/ i19 mid speed/ safe (-9 on grd))
12. 33B ("king combo" launcher/ slow/ tracks left/ does TC/ X-tier punishable)
13. 66A (mid~long range step catcher/ TC/ fast attack (i17)/ KND on hit)
14. 623A (see 66A)
15. QI A (super long range step catch/ 100% tracing I believe/ +2 on grd/ TJ)
16. QI B (super long range vertical attack/ 80~90% tracking/ safe anti-air attack throw/ TJ)
17. QI K (super long range slide kick/ has the least amount of tracking of the 3 moves/ Low Attack/ TJ)
18. 623B (auto-repel attack/ big GI window [2-14]/ initial hit is super slow (i31~i32)/ TC's early/ TJ's after initial hit follows through/ very unsafe (-22 on grd))
19. 3K (fast mid kick poke/ safe/ close range attack)
20. 2K (fast close range low/ good poke/ advantage on CH/ Algol ~FC)
21. 2A+K (slow low kick/ shoots bubble on hit/ bubble catches tech launching opponents for a combo/ the bubble makes it safe)
22. 4B*4B(on hit)A+B (shoots bubble on hit or grd/ actually generates adavantage for Algol on grd/ mid~slow speed high poke/ spacing tool)

This is Algol's arsenal, lets seprate it by range since thats how you're probably going to deal with him:
Long Range - QI A/ QI B/ QI K/ 1A/ 1B/ 66A/ 623A
Mid~Long Range - 3B/ k6/ 33B
Mid Range - B/ BB/ A/ AA/ 623B/ WR B/ FC 3B/ 2A+K/ 4B/ 2B+K
Close Range - 2K/ 3K/ 2A/ FC 2A/ 1K/ Throw
 
Woah... thanks zombiebear66 for the in-depth Algol MU. From you're first paragraph, I suppose Kilik's best moves at these ranges would be as follows:

Long/mid-long range: 66A, 4, 11A

Close-mid range: 6B, 3A, 2A, iWR A, 1b, iFC 3B, 33A, 22A, 6K, A+K, 6B+K

I'm still not sure at what range does Kilik mostly dominate. I believe going close-up with Algol or any character with range shorter (and faster; Maxi for example) than Kilik would be unfavorable... especially since so many of kilik's moves prove useful from afar and are relatively slow when used close to an opponent. But then, he does have some really good moves like 6AA, 1K, 2K, K and asura to attack at close quarters so I dunno.

And speaking of range, I see kilik having some good options against hilde at long-mid range. On reaction, he can 2B+K to evade her lance and attack back with a low. then there is 44B which goes under alot of moves and hits from pretty far. furthermore, in the horizontal moves list Kilik has BP-A which I'm thinking would be really good against hilde as she mostly shoots mid attacks (C2/C3B) at that range (the type of move which Kilik's BP GIs). I've seen RTD and Cernian against SomethingUnique videos and have noticed that SU's usage of these aforementioned moves are relatively rare. Is there something about Hilde that I'm missing which overshadows these moves and makes this long/mid-range position bad for Kilik?
 
For Kilik's close range game it's usually something along 6b8/ 6AA/ aB/ 46B/ 1K/ 2K/ 66B/ kB/ 22A/ 2A/ FC 2K/ FC 3B/ WR K/ or Festival... Kilik gets an advantage over Algol at this range due to his pressure from kB/ 66B/ 1K/ 22A/ 2A/ and Festival, the other attacks are merely chains and pokes... Kilik dominates primarily at mid/ mid~long range due to his ranged pokes, mixups, and spacing...
As for Hilde, she can step Kilik at mid range and a good Hilde can keep Kilik at bay by spacing properly while still charging C2-A or C3-A for that frustrating auto-GI and "doom combo" setup...
 
You mentioned hilde can step kilik at midrange. How is kilik's step at that range? I know hilde's charge attacks are safe on block but can kilik punish with something like 88_22B if hilde whiffs her C attacks?
 
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