Auto-JG glitch I forgot to tell everyone about

[HolyCarp]

Something cool I found a couple of years ago.
It'll probably be a difficult one to explain, hopefully the video will help...

It's actually possible for an attack to interrupt a successful JG. We know that JG replaces blockstun with a JG "freeze" (the blue flash) which lasts 14 frames iirc, and within those frames you would usually buffer a suitable punish. If the attack is made up of multiple hits in rapid succession, the single tap of G will usually JG the full string (e.g. Cervy aB, Natsu 66K, Elysium CE can all be countered using a single JG). In other words, if there's another hit during that JG freeze, you will automatically JG it.

We also know that a different input is required to JG lows (tap 2G) compared to highs and mids (tap G). Because of this, when a low hits you during the mid JG freeze, it will interrupt your JG attempt (e.g. Xiba kB is high-low so the low will hit you even if you JG the high). The opposite is also true (e.g. Natsu 4a+bA is low-high so the high will hit you even if you JG the low).

Here's the weird part. After the JG is interrupted, you remain in that JG freeze state (as long as you don't hit G), meaning your character will automatically JG the next attack, regardless of the timing.

Here it is in action, on a shitty phone camera:

The video has four parts:
1) Just showing how the auto-JG glitch works.
2) It works even if you're in the middle of an attack... or backturned.
3) It bypasses your recovery frames, so be as unsafe as you like.
4) If you hold down 2, you'll automatically JG low instead.

Side notes:
-It will NOT work if you press G or get knocked down.
-The only examples I've found so far are Natsu 4a+bA (great for ukemi JGs), Xiba kB, Viola's orb + a low and Ein + a low.

tl;dr - watch the video

 

[Party Wolf]

fuck this game

 

[Slade]

We know that JG replaces blockstun with a JG "freeze" (the blue flash) which lasts 14 frames iirc,

The JGer has a 19F recovery, but the attacker gets 5F added to his recovery. It's actually really weird; with the JG input on F0 and the first frame of the JG on F1, F1-4 occur normally, then the attacker freezes on the frame he was in at F4 for F5 through F9, then the attack resumes normally. This can be seen here.

In other words, if there's another hit during that JG freeze, you will automatically JG it.

I'm not sure if this is exactly how it works. The second hit of Yoshi's 1AA lands 13F after the first (i17, i30), yet it won't be auto-JGed. The window is at least 7 frames (Cerv aB i11, i18) but I haven't been able to pin down the minimum or maximum.

We also know that a different input is required to JG lows (tap 2G) compared to highs and mids (tap G). Because of this, when a low hits you during the mid JG freeze, it will interrupt your JG attempt (e.g. Xiba kB is high-low so the low will hit you even if you JG the high). The opposite is also true (e.g. Natsu 4a+bA is low-high so the high will hit you even if you JG the low).

Raph's 6BB BE and Algol's 4A+B are capable of sneaking a hit through an auto-JG despite their hits being on the same hit level, so what you've described doesn't appear to be the only way of bypassing auto-JG. What's odd though is that I don't think this delayed auto-JG glitch occurs when someone is hit out of a JG by either of these moves. It also seems like certain attack combinations (e.g. with ZWEI) should be able to pull off this same-level simultaneous hit unJGability but I don't remember ever being able to replicate it back when I tried.

Edit: Actually, I'm not sure if I've tested this with Algol in a way that would show if this glitch works or not. I might've just had the training dummy set to JG all, which would cover up if the JG was occurring automatically. With Raph's, it can't really be tested anyway since it's an uninterruptable string.

Here's the weird part. After the JG is interrupted, you remain in that JG freeze state (as long as you don't hit G), meaning your character will automatically JG the next attack, regardless of the timing.

2) It works even if you're in the middle of an attack... or backturned.
3) It bypasses your recovery frames, so be as unsafe as you like.

Excellent. This also shows that JG isn't tied to the character being in a neutral state (which tells us that whatever allows Ukemi JG to happen is likely less related to Ukemi and more related to JG), and…

4) If you hold down 2, you'll automatically JG low instead.

… it's still tied to player input in some way, but not the same way that other neutral actions are? I'll have to think about this some more to see if there are any other weird places JG might crop up.

When it comes to practical consequences, this seems pretty far from gamebreaking. If a player knows his opponent has an auto-JG stored up, all he has to do is sneak in a 2A or some other safe-on-JG poke, or go for a throw.

 

[Party Wolf]

When it comes to practical consequences, this seems pretty far from gamebreaking. If a player knows his opponent has an auto-JG stored up, all he has to do is sneak in a 2A or some other safe-on-JG poke, or go for a throw.

Not gamebreaking of course. You should also note that it is possible to store the aJG and start going for yolo super dope mix ups since you essentially have armor from any block punish and CH tool.

Application #1

Application #2

 

[Party Wolf]

Application #3

 

[HolyCarp]

I'm not sure if this is exactly how it works. The second hit of Yoshi's 1AA lands 13F after the first (i17, i30), yet it won't be auto-JGed. The window is at least 7 frames (Cerv aB i11, i18) but I haven't been able to pin down the minimum or maximum.

As a general rule, it doesn't seem to work if the string has multiple inputs, like Yoshi's 1AA. I probably should have stated that.

Raph's 6BB BE and Algol's 4A+B are capable of sneaking a hit through an auto-JG despite their hits being on the same hit level, so what you've described doesn't appear to be the only way of bypassing auto-JG. What's odd though is that I don't think this delayed auto-JG glitch occurs when someone is hit out of a JG by either of these moves.

That's a good point about Raph 6BB BE and Algol [do you mean 44AB?], I forgot about that. Isn't there some weird condition required for them to break JG, as I seem to remember I could JG Raph's 6BB BE no problem in training? I didn't know about the Algol one though.
And maybe these two would activate this glitch in theory, but they don't in practice because of the knockdown (even if you get up with A+B+K, you lose the aJG, so I guess you can't store your aJG in a downed state).

Also, thanks to @Party Wolf for making some decent videos for it!

 

[Party Wolf]

aJG doesnt seem to work on mid-mid strings or mid-high strings. Here is my theory copy and pasted via skype.

[12/30/2015 11:57:42 PM] Party Wolf: the way it works is that you just guard one hit level and the other hit level is attacked at the same time
[12/30/2015 11:57:58 PM] Party Wolf: since the game can't register a mid just guard and a low just guard at the same time
[12/30/2015 11:58:07 PM] Party Wolf: it assumes that another just guard needs to happen
[12/30/2015 11:58:14 PM] Party Wolf: thus causing this glitch
[12/30/2015 11:59:05 PM] Party Wolf: because it wants to do an auto JG like Elysium CE for example
[12/30/2015 11:59:15 PM] Party Wolf: but it cant because it goes high-low or low-high

 

[Party Wolf]

aJG is essentially a meter gauge for armor that you lose when you are hit, press guard, or purposefully knock yourself down with moves such as Ivy 44K, Leixia 1(A), etc. Instances where aJG doesn't work are when you are WALKING in certain directions. You must single tap to move and have your aJG come out. You can also still be mixed up by lows if you are not holding down (note that if you guess correctly on a low it will be aJGd). aJG gauge will stay filled for the whole duration of the round until used and does not carry over between other rounds.

 

[HolyCarp]

aJG doesnt seem to work on mid-mid strings or mid-high strings. Here is my theory copy and pasted via skype.

[12/30/2015 11:57:42 PM] Party Wolf: the way it works is that you just guard one hit level and the other hit level is attacked at the same time
[12/30/2015 11:57:58 PM] Party Wolf: since the game can't register a mid just guard and a low just guard at the same time
[12/30/2015 11:58:07 PM] Party Wolf: it assumes that another just guard needs to happen
[12/30/2015 11:58:14 PM] Party Wolf: thus causing this glitch
[12/30/2015 11:59:05 PM] Party Wolf: because it wants to do an auto JG like Elysium CE for example
[12/30/2015 11:59:15 PM] Party Wolf: but it cant because it goes high-low or low-high

Yeah, that's what I was getting at in the original post; high/mid requires a different kind of JG to low. For that reason, it should work on mid-low and low-mid strings too, like orb/Ein shenanigans with a low (but as far as I can tell, this is very impractical).

In the case of Viola, it works for s.mid-low, so I'd be interested to see if it works when you low-JG the orb (s.mid) and she hits you with a mid or high.

Instances where aJG doesn't work are when you are WALKING in certain directions. You must single tap to move and have your aJG come out.

You can be walking forwards or backwards and it'll still work though.

You can also still be mixed up by lows if you are not holding down

True, but they have to be very fast lows since you can mash an attack and still have the aJG primed.

Also, I haven't tested if the aGI will carry after you get GI'd, I wonder if it'll allow you to re-GI aJG since the GI input doesn't involve G.

 

[Party Wolf]

Oh really? I guess since I saw my sidewalk not working I assumed it didnt work for front and back. Must be reallllly engraved into SCV's prepatch system.

 

[Slade]

As a general rule, it doesn't seem to work if the string has multiple inputs, like Yoshi's 1AA. I probably should have stated that.

Ivy's 214B has 16F between its hits and won't be aJGed, so it's still not the full 19F window.

That's a good point about Raph 6BB BE and Algol [do you mean 44AB?], I forgot about that. Isn't there some weird condition required for them to break JG, as I seem to remember I could JG Raph's 6BB BE no problem in training? I didn't know about the Algol one though.

I mean Algol 4A+B (the double bubbles). If Algol is right up next to the opponent, both bubbles impact simultaneously, in which case only one can be JGed and the other will hit. 4A+B doesn't knock down either. It's possible that whatever is used to determine if an aJG should be triggered simply doesn't come into play when two simultaneous hits land.

With Raph 6BB BE, if you look closely at the health bars you'll see that one tiny little hit in that huge string will get through the aJG (for a whopping 4 damage or so). It occurs in the middle of the string though, so even if it does trigger the glitch, the stored aJG is immediately (and unavoidably) triggered by the rest of the string.

 

[Party Wolf]

Application #4

 

[AndyrooSC]

@HolyCarp oh yeah this lol.

This could be put in the http://8wayrun.com/threads/lesser-known-advanced-mechanics-of-sc5.18389/

However i dont have the edit option on the thread :o

 

[Kalas]

Just Guard hast got to be the buggiest mechanic in the Soul series. Nice fundamental idea, but poor execution and implementation in the game.

 

[AndyrooSC]

Just Guard hast got to be the buggiest mechanic in the Soul series. Nice fundamental idea, but poor execution and implementation in the game.

So there is the 2 fundemental uses of it (JG on reaction punishing and option select JG)
then you got the JUG, redJG, JGing a GI, whiffed GI into JG and now aJG lol

 

[Party Wolf]

Application #5

Application #6

Application #7

 

[Party Wolf]

MEMES

 

[Party Wolf]

Elaboration/Improvement on Application #5

 

[Slade]

Just Guard hast got to be the buggiest mechanic in the Soul series. Nice fundamental idea, but poor execution and implementation in the game.

Nearly every bug in SC history is related to the damn button. JG bugs are just one class of symptoms.

 

[ZER0]

remove G from SC...give SC straight Tekken Guarding