Ban Hilde

[ivylicious]

I realized that my last post really had an unclear point so i will try again :P

Anyway. I believe, that while the hilde Doom combo is pretty cheesy, it is far from game breaking. Yes her charge moves are safe and lead to lots of dmg(potentially full life), but this is far from the first time that has ever happened in a fighting game, minus the full life part and there are lots of characters with a great RO game. In fact her C3B can be stepped fairly easily and her C3A can be space fairly easily. Even if you block one of these its still a mixup, either you can guess right or guess wrong. Is she gonna try and keep her momentum and capitalize on her advantage or is she gonna hang back and try to play the spacing game? You may have to think some more when your playing against hilde, but is that a bad thing?

I saw someone post earlier which is really my main point. Where does it end? I may have not been here in the community as long as some, but i like to think by now ive been around long enough to have seen what is and isnt "broke." I've also been around long enough to see what threads like this can lead too :(. I seriously wonder when i see a thread like this, what kind of game to do people want to play these days? Everytime some new strat is discovered inevitably there are discussions popping up about "how broke bubbles are" "asura dance is uber god tier", "Ban Hilde". I'm not here to say that hilde is not good and the combo isnt great but its beatable, it truly is. I just hope that the "community" will as someone said "give it time" If it truly is broke it will become apparent. But please dont throw everyone into an uproar with threads like "ban this person" everytime someone wins a tournament with a new strat. The game is still fairly young there bound to be lots of new discoveries yet to come :P

 

[Cynnik]

Regarding the whole button binding situation...

Fuck you to anyone who wants universal button binding bans. You're a fucking pussy and you're afraid to fight one character, so you fuck up the game for everyone else?

Leave Hilde. Leave the doom combo. Let Namco sort that shit out, it's their fucking job. Learn how to fucking fight the character, or don't complain when you get your ass raped.

You boast about how fucking manly and badass you are for using only four buttons on an arcade stick, but you don't even have the balls to put up with a challenge? Pathetic.

You're a fucking pussy for not trying to get out of your scrub ways!

If you still dont realize binding buttons is cheap or scrubby then you are truely an idiot and a scrub for life. I dont give a shit if you bind buttons for casuals or online play but in tournies... it should not be allowed. Period. This was always the rule back in the day for evo2k3/2k4 for sc2 and fucking scrubasses like you bitched and moaned to have it allowed cuz you cant do 1 button throws or whatever. When i heard that they allowed it in tournies after, i was fucking dumbfounded. Imagine if i had 1 fucking button for an ewgf in tekken... that is essentially what hilde possesses.

 

[BanHilde]

I realized that my last post really had an unclear point so i will try again :P

Anyway. I believe, that while the hilde Doom combo is pretty cheesy, it is far from game breaking. Yes her charge moves are safe and lead to lots of dmg(potentially full life), but this is far from the first time that has ever happened in a fighting game, minus the full life part and there are lots of characters with a great RO game. In fact her C3B can be stepped fairly easily and her C3A can be space fairly easily. Even you block one of these its still a mixup, either you can guess right or guess wrong. Is she gonna try and keep her momentum and capitalize on her advantage or is she gonna hang back and try to play the spacing game? You may have to think some more when your playing against hilde, but is that a bad thing?

I saw someone post earlier which is really my main point. Where does it end? I may have not been here in the community as long as some, but i like to think by now ive been around long enough to have seen what is and isnt "broke." I've also been around long enough to see what threads like this can lead too :(. I seriously wonder when i see a thread like this, what kind of game to do people want to play these days? Everytime some new strat is discovered inevitably there are discussions popping up about "how broke bubbles are" "asura dance is uber god tier", "Ban Hilde". I'm not her to say that hilde is not good and the combo isnt great but its beatable, it truly is. I just hope that the "community" will as someone said "give it time" If it truly is broke it will become apparent. But please dont throw everyone into an uproar with threads like "ban this person" everytime someone wins a tournament with a new strat. The game is still fairly young there bound to be lots of new discoveries yet to come :P

The uproar was going to happen sooner or later, better to have it isolated in this thread. Then when people settled down, level-headed discussions can take place.

The general consensus is to give it time, and I agree with that. We already have some backup options in case things don't work out well, and that's pretty good.

 

[iKotomi]

Hmm, the way I see it, the game wasn't designed to have button binds. It was designed to be played with 4 buttons, but they shoehorned the extra buttons as an afterthought to accommodate pad players.

This is particularly noticeable with Hilde, since the button binds allow actions that the designers probably didn't think about. They never had a character using charges before, so naturally unintended oversights can happen when you try to shoehorn things back into a template. Does it make the game particularly worse? I don't really know. Charge based characters have traditionally forced the player to pay a lot of attention to his charges and drop them when necessary. I'm pretty sure she's not working as intended, but its part of the game. The main problem is the fact that the game was designed for four buttons but allowed you to use 8 buttons...

Just saying what I think about the issue. I actually don't care about button binds, but I get annoyed when people start claiming its somehow their natural right to bind because "that's the way it was intended" because it clearly isn't. Imo, a universal ban on button binds isn't particularly a bad thing. Execution has always been a factor in fighting games, and imo, pressing 2 buttons simultaneously isn't that big of a hurdle to overcome, especially in a game like SC where execution is dead easy.

 

[Sora]

It should be noted that blocked charges are not only safe, they result to Hilde's ADVANTAGE. That's what skews her risk/reward ratio more than anything else really.

 

[kAb]

i never understood what the problem with only having one of each button on a pad was. as long as they are strategically placed it isnt hard to do any command in that manner. i wont go as far as to say they are cheap. but they do remove the human element from things. i remember when i fucked up soul crush SOOOO many times on stick when i first started playing.

 

[ShenOu]

Button binding doesn't remove her ringout game, and I'm confident that even without binding people will bitch a lot because I am very confident I can get by with kicks. Also I practiced guard canceling into basic moves, which come out extremely fast anyway. This isn't the point, people are complaining about the character itself and not the binds.

When I said the thing about losing her ringout game while people with wall games got better, I was talking about the ridiculous notion of banning stages... only against Hilde.

Because I can tell you this first, you know we've been saying this for a long time now.. But we've seen this whole Doom Combo saga before, We know what you must be feeling like, and we've had a taste of what the haters feel like. The doom combo is only a tip of what Button Binding can do for a Hilde player, because Button Binding kills off any or all anti-charge strategy that a player may have (In other words, controlling their opponents binds). When the Doom Combo deal wears out, people will start complaining about C2AA and C3A. Then they will start complaining about how you're able to pull charges out of your ass.
Or when people start playing against Non-Bind Hildes.. and realizing all they need to do is have a B Command Throw to cut down C3B by a HUGE percentile... And they start asking why binds are allowed to overcome something that helps to balance out the doom combo so well... The whole debate will start over and over and over again.

If we were to end this bullshit in a quick and bloodless manner. It has to start with you, unfair enough as it sounds. Like it or not, you're the pioneer of Hilde domination in the United States, the United States are also the only country in the world who are lenient (in general) about button bindings. That ruling (along with banning Algol) has raised eyebrows in just about every other SC community around the world.
That's 2 for 2 my friend, its a hard battle to fight on your part. Maybe you don't care, or maybe you want to get people off your back? I would say that winning with Hilde without Binds will at least get HALF the load off your shoulders, if not, then it will definitely prove to a lot of people that the drastic change in your gameplay (once again, if any at all) will show that binding improves Hilde.. in a very very good way.

Unfortunately that doesn't work in this community, we have to go through the old fashioned way. Ignore everything and let people kick a fuss up again 2 months later.

Or we could finally decide to tell the people who's opinions don't matter to STFU once and for all.
Enough of the ball-carrying... If you don't know shit, you don't talk.

And let me start the ball rolling.

I know shit.
The number of people who don't outnumber the ones who do 10:1.
As my close friend, and one of the 2 Hilde's I'd trust the opinions of (the other being Ceirnian), said earlier in this thread.

STFU.

THREAD CLOSED.

Cry me a river or two, make a couple more threads.
I'll just keep closing them one by one, trust me, it takes less time to close them than it takes for you to make them.
There's nothing more absurd than a major event changing its rules ALONG THE WAY.

Some people have been wise enough to say this.
If the community didn't catch it. (And hell, you've had a LOT of hints and tips along the way)
Then the community lives with it, and fixes it the next chance they get.

Am I wrong to say, that if this Nationals supposedly does get "screwed" due to bad rulings, and those rulings are corrected right after.. It'll give an even bigger reason for folks to host National's '10?

Discussion closed until AFTER Nationals.