Dealing With Ruffians: A Comprehensive Raphael Punishment Guide

LOVELAIN said:
Isn't AB just better? Does 5 more damage and they're both 0 on hit. Not that either are particularly relevant given 6B exists, but still.



Are you sure this works? The AI keeps blocking my 66(B). Am I missing something?
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AA jails and is only -6 on block. AB also NC but is -12 on block.

46B - B4 - 66(B) - PRA(B) - PRKK:B does work, the only two scenarios that I've found are the post LH 46B combo starter and also during certain w! combo enders.

Also, good work Jimbo. This guide will prove mighty useful.
 
StrongbeardTG said:
It matters in the neutral. Why anybody would opt for AA or AB as a punish when i10 6B46BK exists I haven't a clue. Both are high obviously.
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I know it does, but the thread is entitled "Raphael Punishment Guide" and AA is listed under i12 while AB is not. That's the only thing I wanted to address.
 
StrongbeardTG said:
It matters in the neutral. Why anybody would opt for AA or AB as a punish when i10 6B46BK exists I haven't a clue. Both are high obviously.
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Excecution. Not everyone can do AG cancels, and not every Raph player mains him enough to practice that shit for hours.
 
So I tried the 46B B4 66(B) combo again and I got it to work, but it seems that earlier I found an instance in which it doesn't. In my prior testing, I had set Groh to do BB and then Guard All. I think that after stepping the BB the distance between the characters is large enough to make 66B hit later in its active frames, which is what allows the dummy to block it. I made it work now against Geralt's BB and can confirm that it's a combo, but it seems like there are situations where it's blockable, which is unfortunate.

I also found another thing a while ago that I just remembered - there are situations where after a succesful B+K_2B+K evade iPrep K whiffs. I only know of one so far, and it happens when using B+K against Tira's unblockable (6A+B). I'm not sure why this is, since it looks like it should reach, might be a hitbox/hurtbox issue. In any case, iPrep 6B still works.

Also, this is probably known, but I just wanted to put it out there just in case, B+K and 2B+K are pretty unique as they are considered GIs for some interactions, but not for others. That is, you can use them to avoid BAs and unblockables unlike most GIs and aGIs, but if you mess up the timing you get Impact Countered as with any other GI, which can cause Lethal Hits from some moves. I found that I can use B+K to fuzzy Sophitia's TAS AA_AB "mixup" (as in, block the low and B+K the B variant on reaction if she does that), but it's pretty risky to attempt as TAS AB Lethal Hits on Impact Counter.
 
@LOVELAIN it's not that complicated; B4 66B is just not a combo on Groh for some reason. You can do it near a wall or ring edge, but without that the 66B is blockable, at least by the training dummy.

Don't think this is the case for any other character, but I haven't taken the time to test it on everyone.
 
FC 3B lethal hit against a whiffed throw is guaranteed right?

And then it lets you combo with 66B ~ AB ~ 6B for pretty big damage (possibly lets you do other combos as well but I'm not sure).

I'm not 100% sure but I think that's the best punish if you duck a throw attempt
 
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So I think for slighter higher damage on the 46K LH you can do 46K - 22K/88K - BB:B - iPR BB:B. Don’t know if this was already said or known.
 
Blaisius said:
FC 3B lethal hit against a whiffed throw is guaranteed right?

And then it lets you combo with 66B ~ AB ~ 6B for pretty big damage (possibly lets you do other combos as well but I'm not sure).

I'm not 100% sure but I think that's the best punish if you duck a throw attempt
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If you are close to the opponent LH FC B ~BB:B46BB:B and follow with if 2K, 1K, 2A+B, etc. if it KDs I forget.
 
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