Dealing with rushing?

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Aanlaien

Aanlaien

[08] Mercenary
Mitsurugi has some fast moves, but I tend to get obliterated when I get rushed. No matter which move I use, no matter how fast it may be, tends to get me right back to where I started.

Any tips on dealing with rushers?
 
Aanlaien said:
Mitsurugi has some fast moves, but I tend to get obliterated when I get rushed. No matter which move I use, no matter how fast it may be, tends to get me right back to where I started.

Any tips on dealing with rushers?
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Learn frames. Honestly that's the best advice I can give you.

But If You Refuse To Learn Frames Like Say Catman Or MightyOmega...

Rugi is a rushdown character. Make your opponent scared to move by using your step kill (3A, 2KB, 6A, 4A, 22A) then start your mix ups (2KB, 3B, Grabs, 1B) and if you start to get in a jam either back off or 4B like slade said.

Your main pokes are 33K, 2A, 1B, any 6B and 6A. Best whiff punish is 33B or B6 if range is an issue. If you see a high in a string duck it and punish with 236B hold.

If you can upload a match or two I can better your situation with an in-depth analysis.
 
4B at slight negative frames (e.g. just got hit, or had 1B/33K/6A/66A+B/236(B)/etc blocked) will beat the vast majority of pokes and even things like Pat 66B.

If they're just up in your face mashing at disadvantage just 1B/2A/6B8/whatever. Mitsu wins by initiating each engagement and forcing the opponent to stay honest by pressing slight disadvantage to get them to hesitate, then going nuts with whatever bullshit you want to run while they're statue blocking (1B/6B2, 2K BE, throws, 3B_BE, 236[B] mainly).
4B is an okay defensive tool but it's mainly to strengthen his offense by making the opponent hesitant to retaliate. Generally it works like this:
  • Fast pokes at negative (e.g. 1B on block into another 1B) to keep them from using slow, long range shit
  • 4B at negative (e.g. 1B on block into 4B) to keep them from using fast pokes that beat the first option

In addition to all that, Fenris' suggestion to remember to kill their step is very important, because if Mitsu allows them to keep sidestepping, his best tools lose their efficacy and you can no longer control the pace of the match.

If you still find yourself disproportionately on the defensive and losing because of it, then the deficit lies with you as a player and is most easily rectified by grinding out matches with players much better than yourself while focusing on losing arbitrary habits and improving your ability to adapt and make smart judgments.

edited to improve clarity of main point
 
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FenrisZero said:
Learn frames. Honestly that's the best advice I can give you.

But If You Refuse To Learn Frames Like Say Catman Or MightyOmega...

Rugi is a rushdown character. Make your opponent scared to move by using your step kill (3A, 2KB, 6A, 4A, 22A) then start your mix ups (2KB, 3B, Grabs, 1B) and if you start to get in a jam either back off or 4B like slade said.

Your main pokes are 33K, 2A, 1B, any 6B and 6A. Best whiff punish is 33B or B6 if range is an issue. If you see a high in a string duck it and punish with 236B hold.

If you can upload a match or two I can better your situation with an in-depth analysis.
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Unfortunately my video making equipment cannot be set up right now.

I'm still new and learning this game.

I tend to have the same problem with Natsu, Leixia & Maxi players. I have to play keep-away to the best of my ability, but if they get close I get eviscerated. I can't even stand up most of the time. I'm at the point where I can see how to defend against their moves but I can't react fast enough. If I block normally, they knock me down eventually with a low executed in their combos. If I block downwards, well that just leaves me open to everything else except lows and grabs. I don't understand their moves well. Natsu uses that unblockable ground stab when I'm on the floor and I don't even know how to get out of that either.

I have been learning frames lately, so now I am working on getting out of the habit of using silly moves like 8A+B and such. I've been using using moves within a -1 to -8 block range. I only use the fancy moves when I'm 100% sure it will connect after a counter.

Generally as far as getting rushed goes, they seem to block or dodge+punish even my fastest moves such as 1B. I notice a lot of step kills are horizontal moves and one kick, so I'm going to try and use those more when they're closing in.

I have no excuse why, but I NEVER back up. I tend to try and sidestep and avoid an attack or just wait for an opening and go straight in. I will definitely start applying it. Maybe that is my problem. I guess I'm just afraid of getting caught with a long range move or getting stuck in a corner.

I apply these step kill moves and usually these moves are timed wrong. I have an especially hard time using 22A. either it whiffs or they block or hit me before it has a chance to connect.

Slade said:
4B at slight negative frames (e.g. just got hit, or had 1B/33K/6A/66A+B/236(B)/etc blocked) will beat the vast majority of pokes and even things like Pat 66B. However the threat of 4B is far more important, since the only way to effectively punish it is to not attack, and if they're not attacking against Mitsu they should be getting poked to death.

Also if they're just up in your face mashing at disadvantage just 1B/2A/6B8/whatever. Pressing buttons against Mitsu while he has advantage is still riskier than doing so when you have slight advantage, despite 4B.

Some characters, like Natsu and Pyrrha, are exceptions, but for the most part you should be forcing your opponent to respect Mitsu's offensive options by poking them into submission before attempting heavy 50/50 options.
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Good point with the 4B.

I tend to be more of a defensive player. Going on the offense tends to get me killed. I guess what I need to work on at this point is playing the offensive game while respecting the frames.
 
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I've been looking around the site for about 20 minutes now and I can't find any additional information about Frame Data.

I'm sorry for being a newbie but I'm serious about figuring this stuff out.

I *kind of* know what Frame Data is, but I have no idea what I'm looking at when it's shown to me. Are there any explanations on it?

If there are none, can someone please explain what these numbers mean?

I'm looking at this page here:

http://8wayrun.com/wiki/mitsurugi-frame-data-sc5/

My guess is (Again I don't understand the numbers of any of this):

- IMP (Impact): No idea why this is important, but I know it is.
- DMG (Damage): How much damage this move does.
- JG (Just Guard): How easy it is to just guard the move?
- GRD (Guarding): How easy/hard it is to block against?
- HIT (Hitting): How fast it goes?
- CH (Counter Hitting): How easy it is to counter?
- GB (Guard Break?): That's a guess.
 
IMP = How fast the move is
DMG = Damage (240 is how much it takes to kill)
JG = How much advantage (how long it takes for your opponent to block) you get for just guarding the move
GRD = How much advantage you have for blocking
HIT = How much advantage you have for hitting someone with a move
CH = How much advantage for counter hit
GB = How many blocks it takes to break guard with a move
 
Aanlaien said:
I tend to have the same problem with Natsu, Leixia & Maxi players.
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I'm glad you mentioned this, because these are the exact three characters I would expect to give a new Mitsu player trouble, not necessarily due to the matchup, but because you'll need to switch from the more general approach to one that takes into account these characters' options. Specifically,
  • Maxi's WR B+K, 6A+B
  • Natsu AA, 22A, jump attacks
  • Leixia AA, 22B, WR B BE, crybaby
Left unchecked, these can all be used to stop Mitsu's offense. So naturally, you just need to observe what specifically is giving you trouble and avoid making decisions that leave you unnecessarily vulnerable.

If you're just getting gimmicked to death, you'll just need to memorize specific counters to those gimmicks. The big ones here are:
Natsu's UB bombs: just stay grounded and get hit by the bomb, you take about 10 damage and get pushed away from her. If you're standing when she does it, use a jump attack
Maxi Behind Lower: If you don't recognize the stance entrance, what's normally a mix up becomes a free low for him. He can enter BL with PSL2 from LI or PSL1 from RO.
Leixia crybaby: If she hits you with this you get a free 1K. If you see it coming you can go for silly shit like 8A+B.
 
At this point I'm viewing the basics pages that DrakeAlden and Party Wolf were nice enough to lead me to. I'm reading the threads and watching the videos. I'm now in the advantage and disadvantage page.

I was wrong to say I'm struggling with rushers, I just seem to be having the biggest problem with them. I think I'm more accurately struggling with fighting in general, which is sad, but I intend to change that.

I do end up having good fights and beating good players, but I really believe that was luck up until this point, because I have recently been known to lose a match from a simple shin kick spam.

I believe an overhaul is needed. I'm going to forget everything I think I know and start from scratch. Once I learn this information I'm going to review it constantly, then go from there. I believe that would be my best approach.

I've written down all of the helpful information on this thread and I'm keeping them in my personal notes. I'm going to watch the videos you posted as well.

Thank you Slade, FenrisZero & Party Wolf.
 
Aanlaien, are you an xbox live player? I offer you my help with learning some things with frame data. Not to say that Party Wolf, Fenris, and Slade haven't explained enough, but I think I can teach you some useful things in game from a different perspective. I actually just recently started learning frames (with help from Party Wolf) after playing with basic knowledge of them since the release of SCV. I've been practicing remembering Mitsurugi's punishes and interrupts for about half of the cast. Hmu if you'd like some help.
 
CorrectDefense said:
Aanlaien, are you an xbox live player? I offer you my help with learning some things with frame data. Not to say that Party Wolf, Fenris, and Slade haven't explained enough, but I think I can teach you some useful things in game from a different perspective. I actually just recently started learning frames (with help from Party Wolf) after playing with basic knowledge of them since the release of SCV. I've been practicing remembering Mitsurugi's punishes and interrupts for about half of the cast. Hmu if you'd like some help.
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Unfortunately I don't play on Xbox right now.

I'm not entirely sure I want to stay with Mitsurugi. However, I really have no direction as to who I do want to play. So I'm holding a CPU tournament right now. Mitsurugi lost in the first bracket, which isn't improving my confidence in him. Whoever wins is probably the one I'm going to play.

It may sound silly, but I have studied several of my videos in which my fastest moves are being interrupted when I'm on the advantage. My secondary character is Raphael, and he doesn't get interrupted often. However, I tend to die before I can do enough damage in time. Raphael was also defeated in the first bracket.
 
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