Evo 2010

After a thrilling flashchat jamboree.

We, the community (that remains), decide that we will establish gentlemen's terms on premises at Evo. We shall then collaborate an acceptable rule-set for all parties and establish an optimal scheme in which to deliver such rulings to the masses.

Further discussion on the matter will be fruitless and unwarranted. The rules decided will be dependent on people who are actually there, NOT including online blow-hards and drama mongers.

Good Day.
 
It begins yet again. Shakes head.

Anyway Malice ill provide my input soon. Don't really have time this week except small posts. Plus I wanna go in on details

I would say don't bother since my posts are being deleted, but go for it or make a new thread.

In regards to Smash, if you have enough people who love to play a game offline, then it can last past 2 years.

And those rules for that side tournament are a joke.
 
The thing I'm not getting... is if your asses won't be at Evo.. why are you posting? Your opinions mean nothing.

Anyways, I'm slowly getting intel on who will and who won't be at Evo (former players, bandwagon jumpers, OGs, ect) and will try and figure out the best way to get the most of them to join.

So yea, we'll get it right, even if I gotta be the guy looking like a retard with stupid rules. There is a point in attempting to make those on the wall/rusty players more tempted to throw away $10. But the only people that should way in, are people who are going and would be interested. The rest can stfu.
 
I'm all for pushing for ban Hilde/Algol/Bonus/Custom with room to argue the Algol/Hilde aspect, but not Amy. Is she REALLY good? Yes! But the reason Algol and Hilde are even in question goes beyond the characters simply being "too good", mechanically they're broken. Algol bubble spam can completely shut down some characters. I thankfully play Ivy and can face Algol toe to toe, but some characters like Rock are fucked to an unreasonable point. Hilde on the other hand has the ability to win a fight off of one mistake from nearly any stage position. NO character has anything close to that and that's why she's in question. The fact she can charge spam with binds and has a ridiculous RO game even without the Doom Combo makes the case to ban her even stronger. Even though I see Hilde and Algol being banned as a no brainer, I am fully up for it to be argued...Amy on the other hand doesn't have a BS kill off of one mistake and can't completely shutdown characters with spamming a sequence. She does has an impressive movelist, but you still have to use it right. There is a difference between really good and broken.

No custom/Bonus
Argue Algol/Hilde (tho really this should be accepted as banned by anyone who respects competitive play and game balance, I have yet to hear a single valid point to why they shouldn't...ever)

Amy stays in.
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I'm not sure if the side tourny is gonna happen, but if it looks like it is, can someone edit the OP to but in an RSVP form like other tournaments. I want to see what talent is showing up and about how many people we can expect to see. Also at Evo how do we advertise this? Not all SC4 players subscribe here and the more numbers the better.
 
There is admittedly some self interest here, but I tend to agree that banning Amy without banning Kilik and Voldo is a little random, since she's not stronger than they are. I tend to agree with Rigel, either ban all three of them or ban none of them. My preference would be leave it at SW, Hilde, Algol.

I'll enter regardless of the ruleset, though.
 
Amy without banning Kilik and Voldo is a little random, since she's not stronger than they are.
From my experience, players have a noticeably harder time beating Amy than Voldo/Kilik. Whether or not she's stronger needs a clearer definition.
 
*insert random ruleset*

another reason why i wouldn't enter in that tournament, now i'm beginning to understand why the hilde players were pissed (i'm sorry guys), that's my main also.

If that was the case, why didn't the world ban X for SC2 & SC3? Why wasn't assassin banned?

fail....

Beleive you and me, had i'd been in that flashchat i would've objected to this ruleset, not because i play the character, but i also play against the character and she's not as bad as people made it out to be. Belial also thinks so, West coast thinks so.
 
It's a simple concept really. I mean it's not even arguable if you put any effort into it :/

There is a fine line between broken tier and top tier. A top tier character is perceived as having the best set off tools within the games intended mechanics. A broken or "S-Tier" character is one that can exploit the mechanics to create a vastly unfair advantage. A.K.A. mechanically broken.

Hilde possesses the ability to win off a single mistake from nearly any ring position. No character in the game has this ability. There are reasonable conditions to consider that players must actively play around with other characters for ROs. With Hilde, 80% of the time you are in danger despite what preemptive measure you do to prevent being in an RO set up while still being able to play your character. In order to beat her she must make several mistakes in order to be killed with damage, while she can usually win off a single one of your mistakes. This goes beyond use of tools to achieve damage since you must do it multiple times and she only needs to do it once. As well the combos starters are fairly versatile and easy to connect with. Add on how good she is without the Doom Combo and it's obvious she is mechanically broken and does not fit the design of the game. Fighting games are about back and forth struggles and reading opponents, not 1 shot hail mary's.

Algol, while I agree is not always better than Amy and the others listed, has the unique ability to literally shut down some characters. Rock, cannot win this fight unless the Algol is a fucking retard or chooses not to Bubble Spam. Whether or not my Ivy is a 5v5 to Algol and a 4v6 Voldo is not a factor. Voldo doesn't auto win good matchups, there's still room for err and you can't spam a sequence to win it. Algol can. There are some characters that just don't have the tools to fight this. He is mechanically broken.

Amy and everyone else listed. VERY VERY VERY good characters, but they still fit the games design, they just do more things better than other characters. There are still unique traits to all characters that you can hone to try to cover the gap, you just have to work harder. Hilde and Algol you're pretty much dependent on them fucking up, repeatedly.

So stop comparing Algol/Hilde to Amy and other characters. There is a very obvious difference between being overly well rounded and breaking a system.

Also there is no need to ban SW characters. Sure they are not canon, but that's irrelevant. They are balanced characters that can work with the games design. Sure Yoda changes things but he is still a fight that can be had and even poor Rock has a chance of winning without relying on the opponent to mess up for him.

Bans should not be taken likely, but they are necessary at times. Don't feel because a character you liked is on the list means you get to list one of your bad matchups.
 
wait are you saying bubble spam is unbeatable...? If so consider all of my very little remaining respect as a player for you gone

kilik vs raph is harder then rock vs algol... so are we going to say hes mechanicaly broken too?

raphael vs kilik is like 2:8
rock vs algol is 3:7 AT WORST

algol vs talim is a much harder match up...

P.S. Rock 1A > bubble spam
there are other hard match ups kilik vs raph is just the one I came up with off the top of my head
also im not protesting the ban I'm just protesting misinformation
 
Its unbeatable to some characters. You can literally get a hit or two in and just run the clock down with keep away bubble spam. Mind you most characters can fight this but I really don't see how rock can. 1A is only gonna do so much.

Either way on a personal level Algol has no issue with me due to my main, but Hilde is definitely on my shit list.
 
how is it unbeatable with some characters? Bubble spam is easy to get around. I will never forget when tiamat blew through my bubble spam with MAXI. If maxi can do it rock can. and how does rocks 1A not work? It has longer range then the bubble wall.

I think your problem is you don't understand the match up, otherwise bubbles wouldn't be a problem for you.

P.S. stop with the misinformation ROCK VS ALGOL isn't that bad, I think its more along the lines of 6:4 in algols favor, I went through all the tier list threads saying ivy is broken because she has a 200 damage combo from 3B. and that 3B spam is unbeatable,you would be the first one saying thats not true
 
Yeah, we need an RSVP in here ASAP...

So I can just delete all the pointless opinions of people who are not going whenever I'm in a bad mood.. (After posting a whiny status update on facebook of course)

For the last time, Tournament Organizer.. get the opinion of 3 or 4 people whom are around and have trustworthy opinions and form the rules together. Screw everyone else... You take on the opinion of everyone you're never going to start..

Also.. if Thugish is going, and Amy is banned. Make him use Xianghua or I will send him a Durian Bomb.
Also... do a low tier tournament you wimps...
 
algol vs talim is a much harder match up...

Theres no chance of winning with Talim against Algol. Just none. You beat the shit out of mine last week with Algol.

Rock, however shouldn't have nearly as hard a time. I don't get what ifb is saying.
 
LOL Amy banned too? Seriously guys, why not just ban top players and make it easier to win tournaments? There is no logical reason to ban Amy other than fear of a top player coming to win. This is embarassing. Yes the game is dead, but you sure as shit are not trying to keep it alive either by waving a ban stick for no REAL reason. Everybody barely agreed on Hilde/Algol. Now all those people quit, who cried for ban, and it's still there. Blows my mind.
 
LOL Amy banned too? Seriously guys, why not just ban top players and make it easier to win tournaments? There is no logical reason to ban Amy other than fear of a top player coming to win. This is embarassing. Yes the game is dead, but you sure as shit are not trying to keep it alive either by waving a ban stick for no REAL reason. Everybody barely agreed on Hilde/Algol. Now all those people quit, who cried for ban, and it's still there. Blows my mind.

I agree. Hell, I'd get my ass handed to me by a pro Amy but I was legit shocked when I found this out.
 
First of all... you guys realize this is a SIDE TOURNAMENT at EVO. You guys are dealing with this like it was the deadly seriousness of discussing the national championship rules. Scale it back a notch, take a step back, breathe in and out. Whatever you have to do to get your blood pressure down everytime someone says Ban. Be happy there is gonna be a side tournament at all.

-Idle
 
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