Fastest moves in the game?

Aaron

Aaron

[08] Mercenary
I think in prior games it was the sisters' 236 B. Is that still the case here? What are the fastest punishers in the game to worry about? Please include CE's and BE's.
 
Taki's AA which is now Natsu's AA.
iMCF (this isn't a punisher necessarily, it's a fast CH).

All are/were 10 frames.
 
αpatroklos CE is i8. Stabs are only i14, i13 from FC same as IV. That's all I got for now.
 
For most CEs, the majority of the frames come before the super freeze. Those throws hit immediately after the freeze, but their start-up isnt anywhere near as fast.
 
APat's FC 3Ab. Edgemaster uses that shit in legendary souls like it's going out of style, I'm not sure if a person can do this, but the AI manages to do it instantly in a standing position!! It's almost like the AI crouches and does the move in a single fucking frame! (They also manage to do Cervy's CE twice in a juggle, and instantly as soon as the recovery time is finished from the last CE).

I was gonna call FC 3Ab OP, but when I realized that you ACTUALLY need to be crouched, I decided it wasn't so bad.

Apat's frames on block must be ridiculous, because even after I block one of his moves, even 1K isn't fast enough to hit before his next attack! (which is probably that spinning SHIT described above).

If I block something (not a string), I should be at enough +frames that I can sneak in a quick move without having to worry about some other move coming before it.

Slightly off topic, can someone tell me what Sieg's fastest move is?
 
damn-I-Suck said:
Slightly off topic, can someone tell me what Sieg's fastest move is?
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His fastest move is.... slower than iMCF! :)

I'll check the guide when I get home if no one posts up the real answer.

You can humanly (sort of) do the instant-crouch moves. Watch the Kayane open that was out before the game is released for the general speed and consistency a human can do "instant crouch" - the BE she uses is from WR B.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
APat's FC 3Ab. Edgemaster uses that shit in legendary souls like it's going out of style, I'm not sure if a person can do this, but the AI manages to do it instantly in a standing position!! It's almost like the AI crouches and does the move in a single fucking frame! (They also manage to do Cervy's CE twice in a juggle, and instantly as soon as the recovery time is finished from the last CE).

I was gonna call FC 3Ab OP, but when I realized that you ACTUALLY need to be crouched, I decided it wasn't so bad.

Apat's frames on block must be ridiculous, because even after I block one of his moves, even 1K isn't fast enough to hit before his next attack! (which is probably that spinning SHIT described above).

If I block something (not a string), I should be at enough +frames that I can sneak in a quick move without having to worry about some other move coming before it.

Slightly off topic, can someone tell me what Sieg's fastest move is?
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a person can do it
his 214 Stance counts as being in crouching...
so you can do 214 3A:B and it will work thats kinda basic setsu knowledge
 
Yeah Alpha can instantly access FC moves via 214 buffers. He can FC on the first frame of the "stance" (more like a reverse crouch dash). So Alpha can 214 for an instant tech crouch into FC options, or he can 236 for an instant tech crouch into 8WR moves. The latter part is a big advantage because most (all?) other characters need part of their step to animate before executing an 8WR move, adding to the execution time. Say something like AA (hit) -> 33_99B. There will be a slight delay before the 33_99B comes out where the step animates. If you do this instead as AA (hit) -> 2363B, you'll get the same move (33_99B), but without animating the step or going off axis (which is important for landing the 6K follow-up on CH).

Alpha is a beast...

This actually leads me to a question: how is step animation considered in the frame data of 8WR moves? I'm going to use an arbitrary example and say somebody's 22_88B is i20. That's 20 frames to impact from the start of the move animating, but what about the step animation? You've probably got at least a few frames (let's say 5 for the sake of argument) before the the attack itself will actually animate. That means that this "i20" is realistically more like i25. I'd love to know what the numbers are on this, if anyone is more aware than I am.
 
b4k4 said:
I'd love to know what the numbers are on this, if anyone is more aware than I am.
Click to expand...

I think (this is probably wrong) I read somewhere that Quick Step 2[2]_8[8] is 6 frames from the input. I have no idea what the duration is. That puts your next move at 6+dur+iX, right? Like you said, at least i26. But I'm not really sure.

If I understood you correctly, you said that animations like Angel Step (Pie/Poe 236) have to animate before the input (236B - stab!) which I think is wrong. You can do a just frame 236B and the game will give you the JF flash. It only increases damage and not the speed of the stab, though.

I don't understand what you mean when you said you could instant 8WR runs from 236. In V, it looks like they always perform a step and you can't buffer into instant 8wr moves. Some characters have 8wr moves on alternate inputs that don't step like 44 or 66.
 
It's a special property of Alpha Pat's 236 stance. Try it in training mode: do 2363B = 33_99B. 2361A = 11_77A, etc. He won't go into a step animation at all, and if you buffer the 236 out of something else you can do the 8WR move on the first frame of the 236, meaning Alpha Pat can bypass the step/quick step frames on 8WR moves.

Alpha Patroklos' 236 stance doesn't have any exclusive moves out of it (unlike normal Patroklos' 236B shield smash, for example). 236 seems to exist for only two purposes:

1./ Tech crouch.
2./ Instant access to 8WR attacks without animating steps or going off-axis.

Edit: If you want to prove this, there's an easy way to do it. Use Alpha Patroklos and do 66A+B, 22_88 BA. This will not combo, or it sure as hell doesn't for me, at any rate. Now try 66A+B, 2362BA. Voila, 3 hit combo. The difference in the execution time of the step makes the 8WR version impossible, but the i8WR version still works.
 
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