Getting decent

Sliver

Sliver

[08] Mercenary
I'm a big fan of the SC series, even though I'm less than stellar at it. My friend got SCV, and it was basically all I wanted to play. I enjoy the game, and there's this burning fire inside of me that just wants to get good at this game.

I don't need to be tournament good, I just want to be proud of my skill in the game. I got the game today, and beat the story without much of a problem. I hopped online, and just got my ass handed to me. I realized that I sucked, immensely. Like, I only got one win against people only in my same rank. Most of them had never had an online game before

I want to get good at this game, but I just don't see how. I don't understand how people get so good at it, or even how people get decent at it. I've tried looking up tutorials with no luck, I've tried training mode, and I've tried playing online consistently without any progression. My question in this thread, I suppose, is how do I get good? What do I do?

If I can beat Dark Souls, then maybe I can get good at this game. But then again, maybe being good at fighting games has to be in your blood. Maybe I'll never be good, if I'm not by now. Any help is appreciated
 
Countless hours of repetition. Then get the macro game down. Lots and lots of mind games and punishing. Try to accurately guess if you're opponent is going to throw, duck it, punish, etc. It takes a long time, and a lot of it snowballs from other fighting games. So maybe it is in your blood, but I think it can be learned pretty well with lots of game time.
 
Well, I'm in the same boat (played SC series a lot, sucky when playing just about anybody) so I can't really say how to get better, but one thing I've been trying to do lately is pick out one aspect of my game to improve and really focus on it. Like, I'm really bad at following up moves that leave me at advantage...because my execution sucks. I go with the simplest follow-up moves instead of more damaging combos because I'm afraid I'll mess them up.

So the last time I went online, I picked out two moves & tried to follow them up with something harder than I normally do. And for awhile, I was even more terrible than usual - lots of late/botched moves - and I lost a lot.

But sloooowly I am getting better at those follow-up combos. And because I've been focusing on that, I find that I'm less likely to panic in those situations when the game is close. That doesn't automatically translate to winning, but I feel less frustration when I lose because my mistakes aren't so noobish. (And also, because I'm not always thinking 'if I'd just done a little more damage earlier I wouldn't have lost!')

TL;DR Pick out one thing that bothers you about your game, focus on it 'till it doesn't. Blocking and general execution of moves is probably a good place to start if you're not sure. I think some players are sort of afraid to 'practice' those things because they appear simple and they're embarrassed to admit that they're struggling at that level. But you gotta start somewhere.
 
To be a little more specific, i'd honestly suggest picking one character and sticking with them. Find someone you like and start using them and reading up on them. I would recommend you not pick someone who is 1. Overly complicated or difficult(aPat Yoshi ZWEI). 2. currently thought of as low tier. Tiers mean shit at this point, but picking siege when you're just trying to learn the game is going to quickly disgruntle you because you're going to have to put in a lot more work to show any sort of result.

I'd honestly recommend normal Patro. You can win a lot by just blocking, and then doing 6B into combo's. Alternatively both nightmare and astaroth have trouble later one, but at the level you're playing at they can be easy to get down just because of the obscene damage they put out. Another suggestion would be whoever you do decide on check if their forum has a top 10 move list. This is by no means a be all end all of what you should be doing, but when you're just getting started it can be helpful to narrow down the massive movelists to just a few good punishes, safe moves, mids and lows.

Finally a few rules of thumb-
Block. Usually high.
Learn to punish. If you like pyrrah blocking and using 236 to punish can win you a ton of rounds.
AA, BB, 2A, 2K are good on almost every single character in the cast. They may not be flashy, but it's not about just being flashy.
 
Pick a character to main with and try to stick with them to begin with. I done this in SC4 based off the tier lists going about. Once you have your character go into training and learn your entire moveset, look for combos along the way or setups for high damage attacks.

Once you have that down find a player match and get playing!

The trick is basically identifying how your opponent likes to fight, the weaker they are the more predictible they are. Weak Mitsu and Sieg over use low attacks for example or they may attack high then immediately go low, when you know whats coming its a matter of knowing the best way to punish them.

Its repetition more than anything. You will recognise attack patterns for all the characters the more you come across them and don't run from higher level players. You'll see what a character is capable of in the hands of someone who uses them well. It took in excess of 2000 fights for me in SC4 before I became competent online, ended up with a record along the lines of 6200 wins/1400 loses.

I had the advantage of having a combo video running on my PC as i was playing, in between fights I would watch it while waiting for next match. You don't have that resource just yet but if you learn char movesets putting combos together once shown is easy.
 
Maybe I can amend my question a little bit:

If I just keep playing online, will I inevitably get better? Like, fight better people as I slowly climb the ranks?
 
Sliver said:
Maybe I can amend my question a little bit:

If I just keep playing online, will I inevitably get better? Like, fight better people as I slowly climb the ranks?
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You'll get better, at least so long as you're trying to get better while you're playing. I think matchmaking tries to match you to similarly leveled players, but it doesn't always manage to do that.

The hazard of online is that it's quite likely you'll fall into using 'lag tactics': moves/setups that are difficult to defend against online, but comparatively easy to deal with offline. As long as you're aware that there's an element of that going on, it won't hurt you any, especially if you don't end up playing offline much. It's just something to keep in mind.
 
Sliver said:
Maybe I can amend my question a little bit:

If I just keep playing online, will I inevitably get better? Like, fight better people as I slowly climb the ranks?
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I'm a casual player and I mostly just play online. I know I'll never reach tournament level skill, or even top rank online skill, but I think playing online made me rapidly better at SC4 and SC5 up to at least average. I know win rate is a terrible judge of player skill, but I consider myself "average" with 60-70% wins at C4 on Ranked and I can occasionally beat 85+% win C range guys on Ranked match if that means anything. I don't have anything particularly insightful to say but reiterate what some of the guys above said.

- Learn how to defend. Seriously. The worst players are the ones that don't know how to block, don't be one of those.

- Have a basic understanding of frame advantage/disadvantage. At bare bones level, know that you're disadvantaged after your hit is blocked (so you probably want to side step or block next) and you have advantage after blocking an enemy.

- Learn a core set of moves *very well*, just a few to start, and what situations to use them in (i.e. one fast striking move to use after successful block, one good low for mixup between BB's, a safe poke, a good ringout, etc.).

- Add more moves slowly as you master the previous ones and your options for mix up slowly grows. In its simplest form, start by mixing between mid and low attacks. Work up to different timing/range and I think it's a good idea to learn how to cancel a move or drop a combo then go into a throw. Preferably try all these things on other beginner players to get a feel for what works and when.
 
Eji1700 said:
Finally a few rules of thumb-
Block. Usually high.
Learn to punish. If you like pyrrah blocking and using 236 to punish can win you a ton of rounds.
AA, BB, 2A, 2K are good on almost every single character in the cast. They may not be flashy, but it's not about just being flashy.
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I think this is excellent advice that deserves extra highlighting. Keep it SIMPLE (at first)! Especially if you're just starting or never played Soul Calibur before. Get comfortable and effective with very simple moves first, then memorize a few more and try them out to figure when they work.

Don't be one of those guys that flooded SC4 online, the Kilik players that only knew how to spam ineffective A+B stick waggle moves and didn't know basics.
 
So you're saying that being able to do multiple hit combos isn't important? Because that seems to be my main weakness, as my hits are only a few simple hits, and they always take out half my HP when they get an attack in.
 
Everyone here will probably tell you something different, it's just the nature of fighting games that everyone has their own personal style. My take on the game is similar to Dark Souls, as you mentioned. You probably noticed my avatar, I'm a fan of those games too. Beat at least NG++ on both Demons/Dark Souls.

In Dark Souls it's more important to be patient and consistent, because of how punishing the game is especially on NG+ you can easily die from ONE mistake. Walk a fine line of being brave enough to capitalize on short windows of attack but not too reckless to get yourself punished against bosses like Flamelurker, Maneater or Ornstein/Smough. (Especially that asshole Flamelurker). Demons/Dark Souls is about playing safe until you learn when you can take calculated risks like knowing exactly how many hits you can get away with. You have to know how to block before you can be good at risking parries for that big riposte damage.

Same in Soul Calibur. Get good and consistent with small hits, then you step up to dealing big damage relatively safely instead of recklessly.
 
Once you pick a character, learn which moves are actually good to use (safe) and when to use them. I had a really bad problem when I first started playing because I would use flashy moves that were easily punishable, and I lost a lot because of that. I only won online about 20 percent of the time, but once I picked up Amy (who I didn't even need to think about which moves to use, because mostly they're all really good and safe) I was winning at least 60 percent of the time.
 
Sliver said:
So you're saying that being able to do multiple hit combos isn't important? Because that seems to be my main weakness, as my hits are only a few simple hits, and they always take out half my HP when they get an attack in.
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Multihit combo's mean jack fucking squat if you can't land them and set them up. All a combo is is damage maximizing and that's the absolute last thing you probably need to learn if you want to get really good.

Characters like nightmare and asta are easy to pick up because they have short and simple combo's that take off a ton of health. That said if i lose to a nightmare player who got lucky 3 times, but in reality I would've won if i could've maximized my damage, i'm probably better than him at this point. He's relying on gimmicks that'll stop working eventually while i've got a solid game and now only need to spend some time in traning mode practicing stupid JF's or whatever. If you just want wins pick someone who doesn't require much execution. You can get good with anyone, but the higher their execution level(landing multi hit combos) the longer it'll be before you see payoff for your work.

Like i mentioned earlier you could easily win the majority of your online matches by simply blocking and punishing with 236B on pyrrah because so many people just don't understand what's going on.

Honestly though if you want real help tell us who you like and we can probably give you more detailed results. If you're realllllllly in love with Yoshi people here can teach you yoshi. It's just going to be a bit harder. As long as you keep it vague as to whom you're using our answers can only follow in kind.
 
Okay, the help in this thread has been immense. I've been getting a few revelations as I continued playing.

I'm trying to think of it as more of a chess game. It's not about getting those crazy combos (And so far, Devil Jin seems really easy and OP), it's about studying your opponent's patterns. Thinking of what they are doing, and how to counteract their strategy. I've gotten to the point where every game feels like a learning experience, and even losing can be fun. Usually, when my opponent does something awesome, I think "nice one!" rather than worry about how bad I am. I'm having fun just playing and I'm starting to get better.

I'm currently trying to decide which characters I'm good at/enjoy playing. I like Hilde, Pat, Pyrrah, Raphael, Maxi, and Natsu. But I'm still having a lot of fun finding my place
 
Sliver said:
I'm currently trying to decide which characters I'm good at/enjoy playing. I like Hilde, Pat, Pyrrah, Raphael, Maxi, and Natsu. But I'm still having a lot of fun finding my place
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Well out of that list Pat, Pyrrha, Raph, and Natsu would probably be the easiest to pick up. You get a lot of reward with Natsu based on the time spent with her, but you have to deal with closing on your opponents, which may be an obstacle for awhile. Raph certainly doesn't have that problem.

If you like Hilde's charging you might take a look at Zwei. His werewolf delay combos work like a short term charge.
 
Sliver said:
Okay, the help in this thread has been immense. I've been getting a few revelations as I continued playing.

I'm trying to think of it as more of a chess game. It's not about getting those crazy combos (And so far, Devil Jin seems really easy and OP), it's about studying your opponent's patterns. Thinking of what they are doing, and how to counteract their strategy. I've gotten to the point where every game feels like a learning experience, and even losing can be fun. Usually, when my opponent does something awesome, I think "nice one!" rather than worry about how bad I am. I'm having fun just playing and I'm starting to get better.

I'm currently trying to decide which characters I'm good at/enjoy playing. I like Hilde, Pat, Pyrrah, Raphael, Maxi, and Natsu. But I'm still having a lot of fun finding my place
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Trying to take notes here too :)
I get murdered so bad in this game. I did a lot better in sc4. Me and my friend have played about the same amount of sc3, sc4 and now sc5. He always dominates me in 2d fighting games where there are lots of super moves etc. I always dominated him in 3d fighters because there wasn't any super moves. Now I get slaughtered by him. I always get killed by critical edges, and never remember to use them myself. It is the kind of element which made me incompetent at 2d fighting games. I was a scrub already, so this is going to take a lot of work on my part.

Thank god for these forums xD
 
Pyrrha is extremely easy to play, both the vanilla and Omega varieties. She's probably the best example of the philosophy Eji1700 and I were talking about.


Sorry for the long video, but it proves the point better than words. As you can see here, simple tactics executed well are consistently beating Natsu for several rounds -- a character lots of players seem to be decrying as "overpowered" right now.

I played Sophitia SC2-4 as my second main because she's extremely easy to use, and I admit I started out playing like that video with just a lot of BB and AA. You have to grow out of that stage, cant play like that forever but I still think its a good starting platform.

EDIT: Skip video to about 6:00 to get straight to the Pyrrha part.
 
Being a horrible SC5 player myself I prolly still can give you some hints. I am quite decent at tekken and I know how I got to that point.
From the sound of it youre completly new to games of this kind.
In that case the most important thing is to learn the basic mechanics of the game. And then just play.
The thing is, you gotta know why stuff happens that...happens. And then learn from mistakes/stuff that works.
In games like these always learn the mechanics first.
You should know:
-how to read the inputs of the movelists and how to do them
-have a general knowledge of framedata
-know what highs/mids/lows do and when to use them
-know the basic movement
-when to attack, when to block, when to sidestep (see frames)
-know about hitboxes
-what is oki/getup-game
etc. theres way more but those are just a couple of things on top of my head.

Also it wouldnt harm to add someone who knows those basics, play a couple of games with him so he can point out some stuff you do wrong.

*edit:
Also it wouldnt recommend blindly playing online and "climb up the ranks". Yes, youll get better, but without knowledge youll also get bad habits. Some moves that work really well against poor players will be your doom against anyone half decent. And if you keep using them, you might get too used to them.
Something really important is to recap your games. Why did you just loose/win and how could you improve. What could you do differently next time when approaching a similar situation and so on.
 
Sliver said:
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Hey, man. I'm not the best at this game, myself, but as a guy who's starting to "get it" one suggestion I can offer is:

-Start with one character to understand the game's system... Which ever character you like so you'll keep coming back to it.

-Dont take losses too hard. As you can see, I'm a musician, so I'll compare this game to music because... well the learning curve is quite similiar. At first, you're not gonna get it. You're GOING to get your ass kicked and you're GOING to get your ass kicked ALOT; if you stick to it, however, things are gonna "click" and you're going to start win streaking... After you think you're pretty good, you're going to get your ass kicked again. The point here? You don't stop learning! (that is quite exciting IMO)

-Ask questions!
Get on the soul arena for your favorite character and ask questions! You'd be surprised how well you'll be received! Guys on this forum are going to JUMP on the opportunity to help others... After all, that's why this forum exists.

-Be teachable and humble
Self explanatory...

Good luck!!!
 
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