zer0kage
[08] Mercenary
Right guys. SCIV is said to have issues regarding hitboxes and stuff especially in how random moves whiff and the like.
So I make this thread to propose a study on this hitbox issue. The aims of this is to look for consistency in the whiffing that occurs when certain moves are executed and they seemingly whiff.
If there is a consistency that can be found it should be deemed as acceptable and serve as a factor to take into account as a matchup. If there is an inconsistency as in despite attempting to make the move 'whiff' consistently in situations and the like then it will be taken as a bug and be kept for reference in the time of a survey.
First off when I mean with consistent whiffing it really should be a play in hitbox and should not be fret over.
Certain lows whiff on Lizardman
A good case of this is Cassandra's 1K whiffing Lizard Man. People mainly point out Cass' 1K whiffing but Flapjack also whiffs as well for both of the big knights on a standing Lizard.
My hypothesis for this is Lizardman's hitbox is wide to narrow from top to bottom and guarding changes it. In his idle animation the middle part of his hitbox is the widest. You will see that for both Cass 1K and flapjack they will not make contact with his feet on the same axis. However, if you constantly use Cass' 1K by the corner and she gets off axis due to movement. She actually can hit lizard with it since because the thing hits Lizard's feet.
As for flapjack in the same axis, Sieg and Night pushes Lizard's arms as they crouch in and by the time their hands pop out its too far to make contact. However, if you step and flapjack you can clearly see it makes contact with his feet and yes it connects.
Now try and set Lizard to stand Guard. You will find that it's alot harder to land 1K with Cass since he raises his arms up and thus his higher hitbox block's Cass jump pathway. You will see that in the angle that Cass 1K can make contact with an idling Lizard cannot be done anymore since his raised arms literally pushes Cass' jump trajectory out during her 1K. To be more specific any angle that 1K makes contact with Lizard's back foot during idle can't connect anymore due to his larger upper hitbox blocking the way.
In the case of flapjack. Standing Guard for Lizardman allows flapjack to connect in the same angle. Flapjack no longer pushes out Lizardman far enough that the arms can actually reach Lizardman's front foot.
These are all consistent since the different variables do create the results intended. So I conclude Lizardman has a unique hitbox and that should go unchanged since it is'nt serious and there are ways to get around it. Now if those moves totally do not make contact in ALL CASES then consider it a real bug.
X's Command grab whiffing on Asta... Narrow standing hitbox?
Right so this bit covers X's 214B+G 421B not being able to fully connect on Astaroth especially on the 2nd part. Now when you do that standalone against Asta you'll see that X's sword doesn't really make contact but then again you'll see the tip of her blade touching his knee. So that is strange indeed. However, if you pick a square stage like the pirate one or something put Asta right at the corner between 2 walls and do it. You can see that the thing does make contact since 421B in that grab goes deeper into Asta and it registers a hit.
This is really more to Asta having a narrow hitbox in that angle if anything.
This issue does apply to Lizardman and doing it by the wall solves this problem. However it does contradict with my query on the Cassandra 1K issue. However, when X pushes her sword out it makes contact only with Lizard's knee which is part of his lower hitbox. This bit sounds really contradictory and because of this I can't really give a real conclusion but at least there is a way around it.
Mina's FC1B and Hilde's 6B+K in pointblank... Narrow early hitbox? Gap in hitbox? Programming?
It's a real mix of the above issues. Those 2 moves can hit pointblank on a still opponent consistently. However, if you keep on doing it along the walls which eventually leads to the characters being slightly off axis to each other, these moves will whiff. Hilde can do 6B+K, have her body push against the opponent but if the spear doesn't make any sense of contact then it whiffs. It doesn't really seem to realign itself as well, so the move is that linear. Nothing too wrong with this but just odd properties.
Tira 2A whiffs up close against all characters.
I really can't find a valid way to consistently trigger it. It's more likely to occur when the opponent is running up close Tira and she does that once but if you do another 2A right after the first one it'll hit. Certain angles whiff at pointblank very consistently. This one is random and needs some fixing indeed. In alot of cases you can literally see the ring blade passing through the opponent's model and not making any contact.
Sophie and Cass WS [A] with a certain charge timing whiffs every time.
I tried and can't get this to occur consistently. So it really is just a random factor after all.
Setsuka's 33B whiffs post GIed crouching opponent...thanks Jouli
Indeed it happens after she GIs and does 33B when the GIed opponent fully crouches. If she does 33B immediately post GI ithits. However, this problem is akined to a combination of linearity and small hitbox (the dagger is the hitbox). These are the most likely cases since a slight off axis from this can cause the whiff. So the ways to get around itis to , do it immediately from GI (she is more proned to reGI), tap G to realign and do it again but someone might see it comng or do it by the wall. By the wall it will not whiff so this attributes to the GI causing a slight off axis.
Pending.....
Kilik 22A randomly whiffs
Apprentice can't grab Shura and Cervantes from neutral guard
Taki's 66B whiffs post GI (6G) when buffered immediately.
Ivy's whip 1B whiffs against Shura unless you're directly in front of her. Otherwise it just goes between her legs.
Rock's 44K
I make this thread so that we can really iron out why some of those things happen and what not. THe aim is to find a good consistency in their causes. The Lizardman one against certain lows is safe since it is very consistent and easy to get around. Please if you have the time do take a look at it and appreciate some of those factors as part of the play. Otherwise if they're extremely random then they can be referred to Namco for fixing.
So I make this thread to propose a study on this hitbox issue. The aims of this is to look for consistency in the whiffing that occurs when certain moves are executed and they seemingly whiff.
If there is a consistency that can be found it should be deemed as acceptable and serve as a factor to take into account as a matchup. If there is an inconsistency as in despite attempting to make the move 'whiff' consistently in situations and the like then it will be taken as a bug and be kept for reference in the time of a survey.
First off when I mean with consistent whiffing it really should be a play in hitbox and should not be fret over.
Certain lows whiff on Lizardman
A good case of this is Cassandra's 1K whiffing Lizard Man. People mainly point out Cass' 1K whiffing but Flapjack also whiffs as well for both of the big knights on a standing Lizard.
My hypothesis for this is Lizardman's hitbox is wide to narrow from top to bottom and guarding changes it. In his idle animation the middle part of his hitbox is the widest. You will see that for both Cass 1K and flapjack they will not make contact with his feet on the same axis. However, if you constantly use Cass' 1K by the corner and she gets off axis due to movement. She actually can hit lizard with it since because the thing hits Lizard's feet.
As for flapjack in the same axis, Sieg and Night pushes Lizard's arms as they crouch in and by the time their hands pop out its too far to make contact. However, if you step and flapjack you can clearly see it makes contact with his feet and yes it connects.
Now try and set Lizard to stand Guard. You will find that it's alot harder to land 1K with Cass since he raises his arms up and thus his higher hitbox block's Cass jump pathway. You will see that in the angle that Cass 1K can make contact with an idling Lizard cannot be done anymore since his raised arms literally pushes Cass' jump trajectory out during her 1K. To be more specific any angle that 1K makes contact with Lizard's back foot during idle can't connect anymore due to his larger upper hitbox blocking the way.
In the case of flapjack. Standing Guard for Lizardman allows flapjack to connect in the same angle. Flapjack no longer pushes out Lizardman far enough that the arms can actually reach Lizardman's front foot.
These are all consistent since the different variables do create the results intended. So I conclude Lizardman has a unique hitbox and that should go unchanged since it is'nt serious and there are ways to get around it. Now if those moves totally do not make contact in ALL CASES then consider it a real bug.
X's Command grab whiffing on Asta... Narrow standing hitbox?
Right so this bit covers X's 214B+G 421B not being able to fully connect on Astaroth especially on the 2nd part. Now when you do that standalone against Asta you'll see that X's sword doesn't really make contact but then again you'll see the tip of her blade touching his knee. So that is strange indeed. However, if you pick a square stage like the pirate one or something put Asta right at the corner between 2 walls and do it. You can see that the thing does make contact since 421B in that grab goes deeper into Asta and it registers a hit.
This is really more to Asta having a narrow hitbox in that angle if anything.
This issue does apply to Lizardman and doing it by the wall solves this problem. However it does contradict with my query on the Cassandra 1K issue. However, when X pushes her sword out it makes contact only with Lizard's knee which is part of his lower hitbox. This bit sounds really contradictory and because of this I can't really give a real conclusion but at least there is a way around it.
Mina's FC1B and Hilde's 6B+K in pointblank... Narrow early hitbox? Gap in hitbox? Programming?
It's a real mix of the above issues. Those 2 moves can hit pointblank on a still opponent consistently. However, if you keep on doing it along the walls which eventually leads to the characters being slightly off axis to each other, these moves will whiff. Hilde can do 6B+K, have her body push against the opponent but if the spear doesn't make any sense of contact then it whiffs. It doesn't really seem to realign itself as well, so the move is that linear. Nothing too wrong with this but just odd properties.
Tira 2A whiffs up close against all characters.
I really can't find a valid way to consistently trigger it. It's more likely to occur when the opponent is running up close Tira and she does that once but if you do another 2A right after the first one it'll hit. Certain angles whiff at pointblank very consistently. This one is random and needs some fixing indeed. In alot of cases you can literally see the ring blade passing through the opponent's model and not making any contact.
Sophie and Cass WS [A] with a certain charge timing whiffs every time.
I tried and can't get this to occur consistently. So it really is just a random factor after all.
Setsuka's 33B whiffs post GIed crouching opponent...thanks Jouli
Indeed it happens after she GIs and does 33B when the GIed opponent fully crouches. If she does 33B immediately post GI ithits. However, this problem is akined to a combination of linearity and small hitbox (the dagger is the hitbox). These are the most likely cases since a slight off axis from this can cause the whiff. So the ways to get around itis to , do it immediately from GI (she is more proned to reGI), tap G to realign and do it again but someone might see it comng or do it by the wall. By the wall it will not whiff so this attributes to the GI causing a slight off axis.
Pending.....
Kilik 22A randomly whiffs
Apprentice can't grab Shura and Cervantes from neutral guard
Taki's 66B whiffs post GI (6G) when buffered immediately.
Ivy's whip 1B whiffs against Shura unless you're directly in front of her. Otherwise it just goes between her legs.
Rock's 44K
I make this thread so that we can really iron out why some of those things happen and what not. THe aim is to find a good consistency in their causes. The Lizardman one against certain lows is safe since it is very consistent and easy to get around. Please if you have the time do take a look at it and appreciate some of those factors as part of the play. Otherwise if they're extremely random then they can be referred to Namco for fixing.
