How will the new timeline diverge from the old?

TresDias

[10] Knight
At the very least, some version of

the events of SCLegends is now canon. I doubt we ever get an explanation as to how precisely that's supposed to work, but I'm not mad at choosing Iska to be the element brought forward.

As I've expressed before, Iska was a genuinely good character -- arguably one of the best in the franchise, and the one thing about SCLegends that deserves to find a place in canon, if anything did.

i can headcanon an explanation easily enough for how this Iska and that one could be "the same, except not." I mean, even if we conclude that Iska never momentarily wielded both Soul Edge and Soul Calibur (since the latter is supposed to have been with Xianghua), if we allow for his fight with Siegfried to have still taken place in Astral Chaos -- well, between that and his bond with/betrayal of Siegfried, that's all the reason Soul Edge would need to take notice of him and fashion a manifestation of itself after him.

As for this question:
Is that a big enough divergence that it can't be ignored?
I think we have to consider the possibility of this group of eight manifestations of Soul Edge having always been in the original timeline, particularly since this seems to be our origin for Z.W.E.I.

That being said, our new Iska notes that Algol is unexpectedly "already awake," which we know shouldn't have been the case until Siegfried and Nightmare's clash at the Lost Cathedral in 1591. So, by any reasonable reckoning, between that and Zasalamel's change in motivation happening earlier, there's no chronicling the two series of events as the same historical record/timeline.
 

Metroidwave

[06] Combatant
i can headcanon an explanation easily enough for how this Iska and that one could be "the same, except not." I mean, even if we conclude that Iska never momentarily wielded both Soul Edge and Soul Calibur (since the latter is supposed to have been with Xianghua), if we allow for his fight with Siegfried to have still taken place in Astral Chaos -- well, between that and his bond with/betrayal of Siegfried, that's all the reason Soul Edge would need to take notice of him and fashion a manifestation of itself after him.
Okay, so I read through the library entry on Acht again and realized something. It says that an amalgamation of souls entered into Siegfried's mind before and took the form of a young boy, with Zwei through Acht being the same amalgamate now manifesting as seven children. So it seems like they're retconning Legends into a delusion perpetrated by Iska to make Siegfried gather more souls. This might explain the exchange about Soul Calibur. It was part of the delusion.

Admittedly, this explanation still doesn't fit as cleanly as I'd like. The Silver Haired Child mentions that Siegfried is no doubt considered legendary after the events of Legends, something that makes little sense if it was all a delusion. In addition, everything prior to this assumed Siegfried became Nightmare pretty much the moment he grabbed the sword, including the opening of VI and Cervantes' Soul Chronicle. And it's not like Edge even needed some elaborate lie to get him to harvest souls. All it needed was to say 'Yeah, I'll totally bring your dad back. Just keep killing things.'
I think we have to consider the possibility of this group of eight manifestations of Soul Edge having always been in the original timeline, particularly since this seems to be our origin for Z.W.E.I.
Yeah, there's no doubt that Z.W.E.I is gonna be the result of Zwei and Wilhelm merging. Doesn't really explain where E.I.N. came from, but the rest lines up perfectly. Not helped by just how conspicuous the library was in somehow concluding that the name Acht meant there was six more rather than seven. So there definitely isn't an Ein yet.
 

TresDias

[10] Knight
Okay, so I read through the library entry on Acht again and realized something. It says that an amalgamation of souls entered into Siegfried's mind before and took the form of a young boy, with Zwei through Acht being the same amalgamate now manifesting as seven children. So it seems like they're retconning Legends into a delusion perpetrated by Iska to make Siegfried gather more souls. This might explain the exchange about Soul Calibur. It was part of the delusion.
Ah, yeah, I think you've got it pegged. Our original Iska was the "silver-haired boy" in Siegfried's mind, traveling with him in the illusionary narrative of SCLegends, and this same Iska would later splinter into Iska Acht, Iska Sechs, Iska Vier, Iska Zwei, etc.

The only events from SCLegends that may have occurred in the real world were Sieg getting embroiled in some conflict involving the Ottoman Empire -- but even that may have just been Soul Edge making Sieg see innocent people as Ottoman invaders. =/

Metroidwave said:
Admittedly, this explanation still doesn't fit as cleanly as I'd like. The Silver Haired Child mentions that Siegfried is no doubt considered legendary after the events of Legends, something that makes little sense if it was all a delusion.
Oh, that was just Iska Acht referencing the non-events of SCLegends -- i.e. Sieg fighting the Ottoman Empire, then being recognized for his valor by the Holy Roman Emperor, etc.

Metroidwave said:
Yeah, there's no doubt that Z.W.E.I is gonna be the result of Zwei and Wilhelm merging. Doesn't really explain where E.I.N. came from, but the rest lines up perfectly. Not helped by just how conspicuous the library was in somehow concluding that the name Acht meant there was six more rather than seven. So there definitely isn't an Ein yet.

I agree there's currently no Ein (or E.I.N.) other than Inferno. Perhaps if Iska Zwei and Wilhelm do merge to turn Wilhelm into Z.W.E.I., then Iska Zwei will become E.I.N.
 
Last edited:

Aiddon

[10] Knight
At this point they seem to be implying that
Z.W.E.I. was in fact a manifestation of one of Soul Edge's shards much like Acht is. This also explains why there are only seven attendants mentioned instead of eight; because E.I.N. is bound to Z.W.E.I. The Library even mentions how Z.W.E.I. is far stronger than the other attendants so I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up as a playable character. Of course this also begs the question as to why a shard of Soul Edge would also go against it in the future.
 

TresDias

[10] Knight
At this point they seem to be implying that
Z.W.E.I. was in fact a manifestation of one of Soul Edge's shards much like Acht is. This also explains why there are only seven attendants mentioned instead of eight; because E.I.N. is bound to Z.W.E.I. The Library even mentions how Z.W.E.I. is far stronger than the other attendants so I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up as a playable character. Of course this also begs the question as to why a shard of Soul Edge would also go against it in the future.
I'm more inclined to think @Metroidwave is on the right track -- i.e.
there's currently no Ein except Nightmare/Inferno as manifestation and swordsman #1, and our Z.W.E.I. from SCV will be the result of Iska Zwei bonding with Wilhelm to save his life at some point.

It seems inevitable that Iska Zwei and Wilhelm will meet since IZ is currently paired with Johan, who will cross paths with Wolfkrone again for obvious reasons. I then speculate that Iska Zwei sticks around Wilhelm in the form of a wolf ('cause Wolfkrone) and becomes the entity we know as E.I.N.

As for whether it's plausible for a shard of Soul Edge to go against it, numerous characters infected with its evil do just that. See also: the Soul Calibur itself.
 

Aiddon

[10] Knight
I'm not getting that impression at all.
Why mention that Zwei is in the form of a young boy and that he's far more powerful than the other attendants? Or that there's no Ein in the attendants? Right now, it seems they're going with Zwei going rogue against Nightmare at some point. And they're hinting at it what with Acht trying to mosey up to Siegfried for reasons unknown. It looks like the attendants, while parts of Soul Edge, have their own agendas and goals that don't necessarily align with Inferno's. So my guess is we're going to have a lot of sibling rivalries coming up.
 

TresDias

[10] Knight
@Aiddon
I'm not sure I follow what you're disagreeing with me about here? I'm just reiterating what Metroidwave made observation of from the Museum entries.

For example,

the Museum specifies that there are Iskas numbered two ("Zwei") through eight ("Acht"), and that "then it follows that there exist seven 'sword malfested' in Nightmare's new dark force."

There's clearly no Ein ("one") at present, so Inferno/Nightmare himself (utilizing Siegfried's body) must be manifestation and paired swordsman #1.
 

ZionOAS

[10] Knight
I do believe that these attendants are going to have some result in Z.W.E.I being created, yet I don't think he'll merge with Wilhelm is the number one method. I think Viola and Azwel might have more of a connection to him being created. Also looking into how the names are spelt, Z.W.E.I and E.I.N might end up being fusions between the seven, as there are seven letters between them. Something I have been interested in who might be the the other partners that gain sword names? Tira is going to join up with Nightmare soon, will she get a attendant? Or will she be the third henchman group?
 

LisaK

[14] Master
I see a lot of people theorizing about Algol will comes NOW, especially now with Mitsurugi's Side Story, but you’ve already noticed that no character starts the main story of SC 2. Not even Cassandra, Talim and Raphael who debuted in that game. Project Soul is taking great care not to enter the main story of SC 2, because they will need it for SC 7. I see the next game with several characters like Hwang, Groh, Kilik, Raphael and even Ivy, Taki & Amy very busy with these Nightmare's servants. To be honest, we don't know exactly what happened during SC 2, only that Raphael defeated Nightmare, there are still people who believe that Kilik, Xianghua and Maxi defeated him more than once.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone has something to consider, well it is not the main subject of this thread, but I preferred to post here because you guys are more serious.
 

ZionOAS

[10] Knight
The Algol tidbit is more of "if" he was confirmed at first. I had brought up the Conduit and Zasalamel final interaction together involves Algol. That this interaction was hinting at his return and how he would return.

Now with Mitsurugi's side story that mysterious voice was fleshed out more to be Algol and not someone else.

The greatest paradox everyone seems to be having is how do you prove that the timeline is changing, when the original timeline was filled with plot holes. Because even though there are new characters, new events, they are carefully laced into the original timeline where one can argue that it did happen, we just are not aware it did.
 

LisaK

[14] Master
SC II Mitsurugi:
Four years later, Mitsurugi stumbled upon the trail of Soul Edge while visiting a castle in Xiwei (present-day Xi'an), where a mysterious dying man, after being saved by him from a gang of assassins, handed him a shard of the cursed blade. Although skeptical at first, Mitsurugi accepted the gift. Soon afterward, an incident occurred in which a servant of the Emperor of Ming marched to the castle, demanding the "Hero's Sword," and was slain when he refused to leave without it; Mitsurugi sensed that war was coming, but Soul Edge meant nothing to him. He had crossed countless battlefields, defeating every conceivable enemy, even those with rifles. What had once been his greatest enemy was none of his concern, as it no longer proved to be a threat. His only concern was with finding an opponent stronger than himself.

SC VI Mitsurugi Interlude:
The Hero King Algol sent Mitsurugi to China after seeing him in Astral Chaos facing Iska Acht. Which particularly leads me to believe that this Algol is actually the one from the old tl that would be passing through there, since it recognized Mitsurugi. I highly doubt Acht's battle "woke up" Algol, because she is one of the weakest and why Algol from new tl would help Mitsurugi to escape from her, I believe that after a long time asleep the last thing he would do is charity.
In short, in the original he went to China because he wanted to, while in this reboot/remake he was teleported there.