If Mina is high tier, then I need help.

K

kerokun

[01] Neophyte
SIgh, no activity in the Mina thread for a while, and the new one is a rant thread about "high-tier" Mina is. Well, if she is indeed high tier, then I need help with Mina because everyone I fight seems to beat my Mina easily, and I can't find options to counter them. Most players I play against with Mina online either

1, Run to my face and start spamming fast A,A or B,B combos non stop, then kill me with a low. (Sophitia, Groh, Xianghua, Talim)
2. Side step a lot, or use auto crouch SS moves so that my A,A misses. (Siegfried, Nightmare,Mitsurugi)
3. Use RE when I try to counter (Others)

I have lots of trouble with especially Nightmare, who seems to be good at both close AND long range. He seems a have a fast punch or shoulder charge, a long range spinning sword poke, does that explosion counter when I try to hit him and and his CE is ridiculous, (auto GI, unblockable when held). Maybe I'm just slow to react to it.

I even with trouble with Ivy, whom Mina is supposed to be good against. She can combo like mad, does long range As when i try to get closehas an auto GI CE, and a long range unblockable when I can't seem to avoid once started.

Sorry for the rant, I admit I'm not a good SC6 player, (I mainly use AAA, AAB, and BBB combos, and I rely on her 1B way too much) I do read Mina's options are limited. Her only way to counter or punish seems to be only 2A, (short range), 3bK (short range, I can't seem to execute this well enough to rely on it), and her auto GI kicks. Any other options to counter fast combos, or reliably kill off side step moves that auto crouches?

I am just starting this thread to keep the Mina forum going, and hopefully learn what better Mina players out there are doing to counter those scenarios I mentioned earlier. Thank you.
 
I'm not the best player around, but I will list what has worked out for me online.

First of all, side-steppers and characters with a lot of TCs are Mina's greatest weakness and any kind of lag there can causes weird stuff to happen against you.
If you go against opponents that uses side-step as their main defense, you need to switch to a mostly horizontal gameplay, which is harder to do, but possible until you re-establish horizontal options.
For quick "in your face" opponents you will need to learn their move set to know where they are more open and know which options they might mostly try to use. At this point, you need to predict instead of react

- 2A and 2K are your main quick options to stop quick attacks, but take note that it's only for that. Any follow-up from FC you will need to predict how they will react since those two moves have no real follow-ups.
- 1B is Ok-ish as a counter. Its fast and puts you in here new stance, but is easily stepped or TCs.
- 2B is too slow and suffers the same issues 1B has to be a good counter. This is sad because it was a great tool in SCIV
From FC: 1KK and wr K are your fastest options. wrB+K also is good if you know they will either eat it or block it.
- 3b:K is good, but I found out its better as a surprise move than a counter. If you're using a controller, you need to flick your finger from B to K as soon as you have pressed 3. Practice it in training mode since it is one of those important move to master for most combos.
- 8A+B is a good options up close IF you can predict a high attack since it TCs early and has a decent knock back on hit.
- 6K/4K /4B+K Again big IF only when you can predict the correct aGI. Don't expect to be able to use it in round 1.
- 6A/4A/44K if they side-step to your left only. stepping right will dodge it
- 1B is to be used as your main long range punish or within a combo. If your opponent only offers your options where 1B is the best answer, it is not you abusing it, its your opponent not using enough diverse moves.

8A+B when in mid to close range is a great move against most Nightmares since people will usually use high attacks or side-step after a blocked attack. Just watch if your opponent notice this and starts using either slower moves , stay outside of your range or long range mids.
For his explosion: 1B/1B/2K will cancel it without triggering the aGI, but if they are half good, they will use it as a combo bait instead of spamming it.

For Ivy, don't hesitate with the 1B for counters. And again, up close, 8A+B can be good since she has a lot of close range attacks that are high, either stay outside her long range attacks or close to her. RE if she uses mostly mid horizontals. Once she has 1 bar, try to stay outside her CE range to bait a wiff.

Even if its not really used (can't be really used) in the high/pro tiers, I found out that mixing Mina's new stance can mentally throw off your opponents, which gives you advantage. Watch out through since most of those options leaves you open.
2BB, 4B, wrB+K and 9A+B~g will all put you in lingering stance. From there, you can either use the stance's moves or cancel the stance by going to FC and repeat the loop or go with different approaches, but at better range.
- wrB+K is the most polyvalent option here since you can either do K on hit confirm or to cancel RE they initiated it 1st, A to catch mid and B to counter low or even use other moves like 4B+K to catch those who try to run in to close the distance.

Mina is strong, but you need to know your opponent and establish doubt and fear in your opponent 1st. If you let them exploit your weaknesses, it will become a up hill battle. She has strong move with high damage, but does not have any real "I win" button or set combos.

To anyone else on the forums, feel free to counter argument my post or add to it.
 
kerokun said:
Sorry for the rant, I admit I'm not a good SC6 player, (I mainly use AAA, AAB, and BBB combos, and I rely on her 1B way too much)
Click to expand...
GENERALLY SPEAKING, CHARACTER TIERS ONLY MATTER WHEN PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO PLAY AT A HIGH LEVEL. YOU PROBABLY DON'T REALIZE WHAT FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES YOU HAVE UNTIL SOMEONE EXPLOITS IT CONSISTENTLY. THIS IS CLEARER TO SEE OFFLINE IF YOU CAN FIND SOMEONE GOOD TO PLAY WITH LOCALLY.

THAT BEING SAID, IT'S IMPORTANT TO DISTINGUISH WHICH MOVES ARE EFFECTIVE/INEFFECTIVE, BUT DON'T FOCUS ON CHARACTER TIERS JUST YET.
 
I agree with Mr. Muffins above. Character tier is one of those "If you gotta ask..." things. Even then, it is also seeded with some opinion and some characters are better against Mina (or anyone else) than others.

Mina's biggest weakness (from my experience) is fast, close characters that still have decentish reach, like newcomers A Storm is Coming Groh and Geralt, and classics like Sophitia, Mitsurugi, and Yoshi. Taki and Talim can be kept out of their reach much easier.

The key is prevention, and that means control from the start.

6B+K and 4B+K will catch the REALLY aggressive players right at the round start, the ones who don't use things like blocking or sidestepping because that gets in the way of charging in and mashing B.

Play against people, don't try to win, but see what the character does before the beatdown.

Example: Groh will voice "Separate" as he gets into the stance for that spinning low blow of his.

Countering will depend on range, as you can't sidestep that. 4B+K if is kinda far off (they tend to use it a bit farther away than G's reach) will either catch him or break his flow.

Another thing to do is fight an AI Mina with your problem character. See what the computer does for inspiration.
 
Elsydeon said:
Another thing to do is fight an AI Mina with your problem character. See what the computer does for inspiration.
Click to expand...
I thought I was the only one who did this, lol.
I don't know how strong the AI is in 6 though tbh. I usually trash my own character's AI
 
What's worked for me best is playing defensively and punishing the opponent's mistakes. Mi-na overall is a very punish-oriented character, so knowing the gaps in other characters’ strings and knowing when to side-step, duck, etc. mid-combo and being able to react to whiffs is huge. Most AAA or BBB strings, for example, can be ducked or stepped on the 3rd hit. I also like to use Mi-na’s auto-GI moves (4B+K and 6K for verticals and 4KB for horizontals) if I’m able to get the right read. Once you start punishing your opponent’s offense, they’ll start to respect you a bit more.

I mainly use 1B and 6A to punish at range, and 88_22B to punish after side-stepping. Out of block, Mi-na doesn’t have very good options but you can still use regular K, 2A, or 3KK. From FC, I use wrK, wrB, or wrB+K depending on the situation. wrK is the fastest option and deals the least damage while wrB+K combo is the slowest and deals the most; wrB is somewhere in-between. Also, don’t forget that you get LH wrB+K when you duck a throw and can do ~100 damage if you punish it correctly!

As mentioned above, players that side-step a lot are one of Mi-na’s biggest weaknesses so don’t be too hard on yourself if they give you trouble. I found 2A and 66A to be good moves for catching side-step since they’re both mids and so they can’t be ducked. Just be mindful that their range is relatively short and you can jump over 2A. 6bA is a slower horizontal mid that has a bit more range. Both 2A and 66A also put you into FC, which lets you go into 1KK or 3AK (If 3AK connects, your enemy is at tip range for LH 44A!).

I find that Mi-na is generally pretty strong against RE-dependent players if you’re able to use her break attacks often. Personally, I like to use A+B (which LH’s if your opponent REs or GIs) or 2A+B on wakeup. If they’re guarding the 2A+B, you can cancel it and go into a FC mix-up.

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
Maybe that's why I suck with Mina compared to Nightmare. I'm too old to get just frame reactions to Groh spam.
 
If Mina is hight tier, why did she win only two tournaments?
First - PartyWolf (main - Kilik, second line - Mina)
Second - CHRISTMAS CLASH TOP 8, in final Mina vs Belial (best Mitsu)
I did not see more Mina-won tournaments of average or high skill level.
for this reason I do not think the Mina is high tier
 
I also think a good strategy to utilize is to mix-up your aggression and distance throughout the match. I like to constantly change my range from long to short as I play to try to take away the confidence of opposing players at all ranges. People expect the long range Mi-na.

This is possible although challenging, but if you just play the keep away game with other players, characters will rush down with confidence in taking a trade to get close. Mix up the keep away, with the rush down of your own, and it will result in your opponent losing their desire to prey on Mina's close to mid range weakness. Actually I should clarify. I don't think Mi-na is weak up close at all. I think she is weak precisely at that closemid range, if you know what I mean; that ideal Groh range is where Mi-na is most at threat.

Further, when starting out, I think Mi-na will always fall prey to rush down tactics as she is a precision character. It will be painful starting out but will just get better the more skilled you get! Reversal edge, and 2A are your best friends during this early learning period.

Although all that being said, I am no expert. :D Just a lowly D3 Mi-na.
 
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