ZedzDead
[08] Mercenary
i realize about the air escapes. i was just listing some cool combos that i use and pull off quite frequently. and about 85% roughly of ppl ive played never shake out of a stun.
Lizzy Strategies!
- Thread starter hobgoblin
- Start date
Rico
[09] Warrior
They'll learn to shake out of the stuns in time, but basically, ANY combo listed in the main list can be done after those stuns. It's a given.
The point is that the definition of a "combo" is something that can't be escaped. Your "combos" can be escaped in as many as 3 different places PER COMBO.
There's nothing stopping you from posting neat, escapable, juggles here but be sure to note that they are escapable in the post so as not to confuse new players looking for combos.
The point is that the definition of a "combo" is something that can't be escaped. Your "combos" can be escaped in as many as 3 different places PER COMBO.
There's nothing stopping you from posting neat, escapable, juggles here but be sure to note that they are escapable in the post so as not to confuse new players looking for combos.
Nuez
[09] Warrior
that's because you're playing online scrubs ... yup i said it ... it's tru ...
please be careful about polluting the forums with incorrect information and other less blatant forms of failure
ZedzDead
[08] Mercenary
look, guys, i have been a fan since soul edge came out in arcades. but dont you think you sound kind of elitest? i mean no disrespect to anyone and i like this forum for its content and wealth of info. i also didnt realize how serious some ppl take this game. from now on i'll just be a wallfly around here and enjoy my stay. i just thought i'd share my favorite combos w/ everyone. and yes, rank matches are played by scrubs mostly. sometimes its hard to find players in match at my off hours when i play. zedz
CNP
[09] Warrior
That post you quoted was maybe a little elitist. But they're all correct. Yeah, a lot of the people on here take this stuff competitively so we mostly deal in real combos and stuff to help us win against good opponents. But hey, welcome to the community.
Rico
[09] Warrior
Don't worry about it, guy.
Keep posting all you like, just be sure to make note if a combo is escapable and the Nuez's of the world won't get up in your grill. (at least not as much =)
And when you're testing for Air Controllability, keep in mind that 95% of players always AC in a back/left or back/right direction. Because of this, if your juggle hits both of those directions, even if it is technically escapable by some other direction, it'll still hit most people.
Keep posting all you like, just be sure to make note if a combo is escapable and the Nuez's of the world won't get up in your grill. (at least not as much =)
And when you're testing for Air Controllability, keep in mind that 95% of players always AC in a back/left or back/right direction. Because of this, if your juggle hits both of those directions, even if it is technically escapable by some other direction, it'll still hit most people.
AM64
[09] Warrior
It's not elitist at all. On the contrary, sticking to this notation is more helpful to the inexperienced players. The word combo implies guaranteed damage. Learning this game effectively is hard enough...now imagine if an inexperienced player builds his whole game around an attack strategy, that, while extremely effective (and your strategies were good), is not guaranteed. This player is in for a really rough time when he starts fighting more skilled opponents and realizes that he has to rethink the entire way he plays the game.
I do think that Nuez was far too harsh in his criticism, but I think his heart was in the right place. It's your decision, but I think you could offer a lot to the community if you decided to stick around and accept a little criticism every now and then.
Nuez
[09] Warrior
well ouchies! i didn't mean it to be so harsh ...
i'm just saying you need to be careful what you post on these threads only because the community uses them as their main resource (along with caliburforum) for the latest, most accurate info
even though i love the game and do play it competitively i've never considered myself an elitist ... i thought i was jus being funny(ish)
anywho, nothing makes me happier than seeing more people play the game besides more people playing lizzie ... so post all you want ... i don't mean any harm =)
ZedzDead
[08] Mercenary
itz funny how 2 different perspectives can take one thing and mean another. i have played my games centered around my stuns in the beginning but as i play more player matches and the pressure for rank is absent, i am finding a better experience and rightly so. i am playing much more efficiently w/ normal combos. i never knew LM even had the 33b:b move til i came here and i think that was reward enough for the criticism. anyway, thanks for cluing me in on the ways of the board. zedz
ViciousSuicide
[09] Warrior
Here's a strat if you play Siegfried, anytime he does 3B into NBS you can LC A+K,B under every option except B. But then this will force a Siegfried player to do 3B, NBS B, from there you can step and 3B punish.
Further Random Lizzy Strategy thoughts:
I had a chance to play against a friend some earlier this week, and have a few more thoughts on the Lizzy vs. X matchup.
* Weird properties on X's evasion. X's 44B evade->poke hits Lizardman if he's in his crawl stance, standing still. HOWEVER. It MISSES if lizardman is moving either forward or backward. I think it might also miss if you're doing LC A, but I didn't have a good chance to test this.
* X's low-throw can hit you out of the (WR)K, K, K triple kick on block. Sucky! (She can punish with other things too, so it's always been unsafe on block vs. her. But this makes it that much more dangerous.)
* If you're in crawl stance against X, and are up in her face, LC K is your friend. The weird back-up he does at start, plus the mini-jump in the middle of it seem to prevent X's low-throws while doing this move. This makes it one of the safest moves you have against X from LC. K also has the advantage that if she tries to jump over you with a regular hop, (Which she likes to do in order to use her back-turned stun-kick) you'll hit her out of the air.
* Long range poking with LC A is definitely a good strategy against X. This is a strategy I've been playing with lately, and it goes something like this: LC A hits low, is horizontal, is very fast, and has great range. It's unsafe on block, but only if you're too close. So if you can get at just about the edge of your LC A range, you force them to make some hard decisions. They can block low and be safe, but then they can't move. They can try to move out of range, but they can't attack low while moving out of range, so they have to guess when you're going to attack. They can try to attack YOU, but because you're at the edge of your (considerable) reach, they will probably have to get closer first, with you poking at their feet the whole time. If they try to attack from that range, then in most cases, the attack will be vertical, and slow enough that you can guard it with the scale shield. (LC A+B) Some characters do have tech jumps that you have to be careful of, (heck, lizzy himself has his fine, fine A+B) but even those are often slow enough that if they don't catch you on a whiffed LC A, you can usually respond with LC B or LC K to hit them out of the air, or LC A+B to guard. The net result is that you hover just outside of their reach, with most of their moves useless, and poke at their life bar until they get far enough away that it's not worth staying in stance any more. (If they get too far away, it's usually worth just exiting lizard stance, since from long range, they usually have enough time to set up more reliable ways to hurt you.)
So anyway, this strategy works ok against lots of characters (although less so vs. Asteroth, Zalsamael and other long reachers), but I find it particularly effective against X, who seems to otherwise have good anti-LC tools. It stops her low-throw threat, and her other attacks at that range are limited. She'll usually be forced to try rushing in and doing something fast. Her great wall (don't know the input, but she sort of slams her sword against you) is a respectable option since it is quick and advances and hits grounded. You can guard it with your scale shield (LC A+B) though, and if she whiffs, it has huge recovery. Her kicks are really her best option since they're fast, and you can't block them with your shield. They require her to get close though, so she'll usually take some damage getting there.
* Related to long range poking - If you ever find yourself in a match and just needing one hit or so to finish it - entering lizard crawl directly (236) and doing LC A is a long range low poke with surprising reach. From standing, by the time Lizzy gets low on all fours (which movies him forward slightly) and adding in LC A's already respectable reach, you can hit people who are actually kind of far away, and who almost certainly aren't expecting a long-distance low poke. (That tracks steppers. Bwah hah hah!)
-Montoli
I had a chance to play against a friend some earlier this week, and have a few more thoughts on the Lizzy vs. X matchup.
* Weird properties on X's evasion. X's 44B evade->poke hits Lizardman if he's in his crawl stance, standing still. HOWEVER. It MISSES if lizardman is moving either forward or backward. I think it might also miss if you're doing LC A, but I didn't have a good chance to test this.
* X's low-throw can hit you out of the (WR)K, K, K triple kick on block. Sucky! (She can punish with other things too, so it's always been unsafe on block vs. her. But this makes it that much more dangerous.)
* If you're in crawl stance against X, and are up in her face, LC K is your friend. The weird back-up he does at start, plus the mini-jump in the middle of it seem to prevent X's low-throws while doing this move. This makes it one of the safest moves you have against X from LC. K also has the advantage that if she tries to jump over you with a regular hop, (Which she likes to do in order to use her back-turned stun-kick) you'll hit her out of the air.
* Long range poking with LC A is definitely a good strategy against X. This is a strategy I've been playing with lately, and it goes something like this: LC A hits low, is horizontal, is very fast, and has great range. It's unsafe on block, but only if you're too close. So if you can get at just about the edge of your LC A range, you force them to make some hard decisions. They can block low and be safe, but then they can't move. They can try to move out of range, but they can't attack low while moving out of range, so they have to guess when you're going to attack. They can try to attack YOU, but because you're at the edge of your (considerable) reach, they will probably have to get closer first, with you poking at their feet the whole time. If they try to attack from that range, then in most cases, the attack will be vertical, and slow enough that you can guard it with the scale shield. (LC A+B) Some characters do have tech jumps that you have to be careful of, (heck, lizzy himself has his fine, fine A+B) but even those are often slow enough that if they don't catch you on a whiffed LC A, you can usually respond with LC B or LC K to hit them out of the air, or LC A+B to guard. The net result is that you hover just outside of their reach, with most of their moves useless, and poke at their life bar until they get far enough away that it's not worth staying in stance any more. (If they get too far away, it's usually worth just exiting lizard stance, since from long range, they usually have enough time to set up more reliable ways to hurt you.)
So anyway, this strategy works ok against lots of characters (although less so vs. Asteroth, Zalsamael and other long reachers), but I find it particularly effective against X, who seems to otherwise have good anti-LC tools. It stops her low-throw threat, and her other attacks at that range are limited. She'll usually be forced to try rushing in and doing something fast. Her great wall (don't know the input, but she sort of slams her sword against you) is a respectable option since it is quick and advances and hits grounded. You can guard it with your scale shield (LC A+B) though, and if she whiffs, it has huge recovery. Her kicks are really her best option since they're fast, and you can't block them with your shield. They require her to get close though, so she'll usually take some damage getting there.
* Related to long range poking - If you ever find yourself in a match and just needing one hit or so to finish it - entering lizard crawl directly (236) and doing LC A is a long range low poke with surprising reach. From standing, by the time Lizzy gets low on all fours (which movies him forward slightly) and adding in LC A's already respectable reach, you can hit people who are actually kind of far away, and who almost certainly aren't expecting a long-distance low poke. (That tracks steppers. Bwah hah hah!)
-Montoli
echeesekid
[08] Mercenary
crawl A+K, B, 8[B+K]
something i do once in a while
something i do once in a while