matchups

[JustinAkatsuki]

Im tired of this rumor about alpha being linear its a lie the alpha players started to keep us from banning him

I think alpha needs damage reductions and also for his JF twister to never hit grounded opponents....i think it just needs to go...and 33B needs its random tracking gone same for 66B and he shouldn't be so safe anyway..like rugi

 

[dom]

I think alpha needs damage reductions and also for his JF twister to never hit grounded opponents....i think it just needs to go...and 33B needs its random tracking gone same for 66B and he shouldn't be so safe anyway..like rugi

As an Alpha that plays both characters from SCIV (setsuka) I can understand the frustration. The scary thing is Alpha is LESS equipped than she was. Setsuka was a beast along with Hilde. Namco isn't going change him a lot for three reasons:

1) He is an execution heavy character. 7 0f his top 10 moves are just frames that aren't noob friendly. Mastering them is the difference between a scrub and being competitive. Namco had to reward players with some token ( Damage ) gesture. Go to his move list and do his JF moves and you'll appreciate. There is a reason the Practice mode has his ease of use at practically zero.

2) This is the WORST SELLING soul calibur EVER. Under 800K copies to date. It cost them $80K to patch the game from now on ( first 3 patches free on PSN) . There is a reason they stop patches at 1.03 in SCIV.

3)Do you think Namco's going to nuke the face of their franchise? HELL NO! Its like Hilde last year and Viola this year.

4) He is a paper champion. Every time you watch a tournament the alpha players usually switch after multiple dropped combos cost them the match. Who do they pick next? Viola lol!!!!! Its hilarious. Right now he is #1 in theory only ladies and gentleman. Several long time players in our forum completely switched to her and Cervantes, especially after 1.02 and 1.03.


I personally think that he EARNS his damage through HOURS of practice. My wife calls this game Soul Callouses for a reason. His just frames are ridiculous. While other characters are mastering strategy and move implementation Alpha's have to practice just to get move to even register. What did Namco do in patch 1.02? They made Alpha's best tool(1B:B) a one frame move with -20 on missed frame. Its a hassle to master. But when I mastered it and started pounding people with it everyone's now wants it banned b/c of the 120 dmg potential. If you watch any Alpha in tournament play you see them getting POUNDED for dropped frames. Damage is one of the ways Namco evened his excruciatingly LARGE learning curve. Try doing 2x Twisters on a small hit box character and you'll understand PERFECT EXECUTION.

I play Hilde for style and for OUR HOMELAND. I play Alpha for the sense of accomplishment and WOW factor of a MASTERED complex sequence. Only Yoshi and Voldo players can understand it.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

True and good post. I also use alpha and even tho im not an execution heavy player I can hit his just frame twister atleasts 85% of the time so it's not really that hard to me. I play alpha for the execution part to, but if they were to patch him...even tho I would want JF twister damage lowered on grounded opponents(or not)..well..if they take that out of the combo then there's the fun factor for me...to me it's tough to go about on this move because if u were to make the damage too lil then its kinda strange....so tough balance between JF twister and JF twister hitting grounded opponents....I like using alpha but mixed feelings towards playing a good one...

But to sum it up I don't think he needs to be so safe and same goes for the other chars ( mitsurugi, algol, viola) I have no faith in projects soul balancing patch....my time with this game is almost up..as much as I like playing it, there are some things I just don't accept now. And not to mention am going to be a bit busy for the summer heh.

 

[Runis]

dom, I know where you're coming from in terms of "you drop you die" since I have a very very nasty Hilde combo (Which is banned from being revealed until after EVO) which if you mess up your timing ends up with them waking up in your face at about 25 frame advantage.

 

[dom]

What scares me guys is the fact that Viola is a damage whore with a zero risk to reward ratio. She is only slightly less powerful than Alpha but her moves are tons easier and more accessible. NOW THAT'S A TRAVESTY. Dam!!! There she is at the bottom of the page begging for more damage in the next patch . I see you Viola with the fake tears. No you may not have a more powerful CE!! No I am married so go away. Yes my sister may be a two faced freak but she's family. Omega that bitch is at the bottom of the screen again. DNS her for me! Shit! She's to the top of the screen too! Go away sucker! This is the HOMELAND not whoreland.

 

[Runis]

dom, you haven't been subjected to -> Make a mistake -> eat a combo -> not know about reset condition -> eat a reset and die -> next round make a mistake eat a combo -> figure out reset condition -> get trolled by Unblockable to the face -> next round make a mistake eat a combo -> figure out how to beat both reset and UB setup -> eat a completely unseen reset.

Hilde with perfect execution is in my opinion SSS tier. She's about 2 tiers above Alpha with perfect execution and about 3 above Cervy. Honestly, if you have perfect execution, Hilde's matchups would on paper be 9-1 in her favour for every single match-up due to the meter gain you get from C2B loops and the fact that you only need 1 bar to start the loop as a GI and it will generate 1.5-1.75 bars of meter. This is all subject to my findings which I'll post after EVO, but let me say this first and foremost, she does NOT have an infinite. Her best combo outside of a UB W! will drop at 31 hits and will not kill the opponent. It requires a lot of really good timing and can not be performed on muscle memory (since her combos are unstable due to varying launch trajectories and heights) but it does have a reset point that will reset the damage counter and can kill you. So if I am at EVO and hit you with this in a match and you go bitching to a judge saying I was abusing an infinite, let me just say you're a fucking retard for eating a reset.

 

[dom]

dom, you haven't been subjected to -> Make a mistake -> eat a combo -> not know about reset condition -> eat a reset and die -> next round make a mistake eat a combo -> figure out reset condition -> get trolled by Unblockable to the face -> next round make a mistake eat a combo -> figure out how to beat both reset and UB setup -> eat a completely unseen reset.

Hilde with perfect execution is in my opinion SSS tier. She's about 2 tiers above Alpha with perfect execution and about 3 above Cervy. Honestly, if you have perfect execution, Hilde's matchups would on paper be 9-1 in her favour for every single match-up due to the meter gain you get from C2B loops and the fact that you only need 1 bar to start the loop as a GI and it will generate 1.5-1.75 bars of meter. This is all subject to my findings which I'll post after EVO, but let me say this first and foremost, she does NOT have an infinite. Her best combo outside of a UB W! will drop at 31 hits and will not kill the opponent. It requires a lot of really good timing and can not be performed on muscle memory (since her combos are unstable due to varying launch trajectories and heights) but it does have a reset point that will reset the damage counter and can kill you. So if I am at EVO and hit you with this in a match and you go bitching to a judge saying I was abusing an infinite, let me just say you're a fucking retard for eating a reset.

LOL! The only 3 things I like better than a good beat down.
1) Perfect execution from either myself or my opponent.
2) Being stopped by superior mind games.
3) Learning from my mistakes and executing in the rematch.

Perfect execution and Soul Calibur5 is an oxymoron however. Too much glitches and mitigating factors. For example Alpha on a wall can do 205 damage with 100 meter especially when you incorporate 8A+B A Counter hit reset. But Namco and their bug team never took the time to perfect wall bugs.Sometimes you land in the front of foes after the initial wall stun. Other times you land behind. Either way you end up with 150 meter build but it requires MASTERY of the JUMP STOP technique. I hope I can make it to EVO for my beatdown. lol!

 

[dom]

By the way Hussler, this is what I was referring to when I said 236~3B (i17) kills back step:
http://8wayrun.com/threads/bakstep-vulnerable-for-20f.13514/

My boy Noodalls is droppin the knowledge as usual!

 

[Solid_Altair]

Same with NM.

B+K will beat all his options in side stance unless he cancels it into a grim stride.

After blocked 3B, WR B beats all his options.

Actually, he tech step it with A or (A). If I remember well the bA also has a tech step to it, but in a different timing.

Plus, Hilde's WR B is high and I think NM will have the time to Grim Stride below it.

44A seems an universal option againts all Night Stance entries, except his 44(B), which gives him a bigger advantage and allows him to interpt Hilde's 44A.

_______

His 3AA and 22AA can have the second hit aGIed by Hilde's 3A, or better yet, 3(A). But he has other options in the strings. I didn't test what happens if he does 3A2A. From long range I'm almost sure he wins. As for 22Aa6, the 3A will still work, but the 3(A) will be intercepted.

_______

The second low of his A2AA may be jumped if you block the first low.

 

[Solid_Altair]

Phyyra 66B BE can be 3(A) GId or just stepped(not quick stepped)
sieg chief hold loses to step 22B post 3B. He has to cancel into the stance when he spins or eats the damage. step 22A beats it clean
Im probably going to be looking into both phyyras match ups soon since they are both teh ghey

Pyrrha's 66b(BE) cannot be aGIed by 3A because you can't use 3A from FC. Just step and punish her. 53BA C1B isn't bad.

Sieg can can dodge 22B by spinning in chief stance twice. Then he can nail you with the chief stance B.

I haven't tested, but I'm pretty sure 22A can be aGIed by his base stance.

 

[WARUI_NE]

Pyrrha's 66b(BE) cannot be aGIed by 3A because you can't use 3A from FC. Just step and punish her. 53BA C1B isn't bad.

Sieg can can dodge 22B by spinning in chief stance twice. Then he can nail you with the chief stance B.

I haven't tested, but I'm pretty sure 22A can be aGIed by his base stance.

Recovering crouch cancel brah


also I mentioned the spin.

 

[Solid_Altair]

Wow. Is that recovering crouch cancel thing actually fast enough for this? I tried, but couldn't pull it off. Do you guys think it's a bug, or is intended by the Devs?

And sorry for missing your mention of the spin :p

 

[Runis]

Fuck it -

I have it on replay and am trying to air control in every single direction with nightmare.
If you have the right timing you CAN NOT AIR CONTROL.

 

[Solid_Altair]

Wooow... O_O Does this thing loop?

 

[Runis]

of course it does. but looping it past 2 loops gets exponentially harder since they can AC it easier, but you should always be able to get one.

The full combo I've been able to do is 22B C2B (BT K C2B)x8 BT K step C4A tech trap.
The thing about this is that for the BT K portion, if you do it slightly late, the C2B can be guarded but if they're not guarding, it turns into a reset and they are relaunched with damage/launch counter reset. So they Have to be holding guard after the BT K or they have the chance to be reset which would kill them. The only safe answer is to JG the C4A.

 

[m216xlegendx]

Yeah that"s legit. Is that OP? lol. Ill tell you one thing, its way easier then looping back to back c2b's. I will be hitting people with this .........​

Tried starting it from 3a and it didn't work. Does this loop only work after 22b?

started looping it some, found out that if they somehow air control over your head after the bt k. Only one hit of the c2b hits and hilde goes in the wrong direction . I had cpu on random air control. I think it just went forward twice.

I really think if you air control the right ways you can make the c2b 2nd hit whiff and hilde goes the wrong way. Just try to go over hildes head always. So i dont think this is OP but it needs alot more testing. I need to test it with a human

 

[Solid_Altair]

Does it hit small characters, too?

 

[Runis]

You don't need to do Back to Back BT K C2B, you can mix it up with BT K [C2B x 2] BT K to make it harder to AC. It does works off of EVERY launch starter but timing is different for each. Some starters you should maybe loop C2B once before you try it.
As far as I know it should work on every character, I've tried it on Pyrrha and Nightmare but I noticed some issues when I used it against Mistu, but that might just be an issue with my execution under pressure.

 

[m216xlegendx]

Does it hit small characters, too?

yeah im pretty sure it is easier on some characters then others. At first i thought it was a size thing, but it isnt. For what ever reason its easy to hit NM with. But its not as easy to hit astaroth. This tech is NM real life nightmare.

 

[m216xlegendx]

You don't need to do Back to Back BT K C2B, you can mix it up with BT K [C2B x 2] BT K to make it harder to AC. It does works off of EVERY launch starter but timing is different for each. Some starters you should maybe loop C2B once before you try it.
As far as I know it should work on every character, I've tried it on Pyrrha and Nightmare but I noticed some issues when I used it against Mistu, but that might just be an issue with my execution under pressure.

I was thinking start with the bt k loop and then go into c2b loop. I think it works well cause after you do bt k loop, the c2b loops timing is same as if you hit with raw c2b or 4kk loop. Imo these are easiest loop starters. You just want to hit dead middle of thier body with c2b.

Going into c2b loop from 22_88 b consistently.

Now you can hit with c2b at all different heights and get relaunch. But i found a order that actually will make doing the c2b loop control able.

22_88 b-c2b-g now this next c2b has to be at the highest possible height. I buffer it. If you do it right you should hit them on the top half of your spear. Basically they will fall into your spear kinda close to where your hand is. Now if you hit that c2b correct you will relaunch them over your head. Next c2b timing is the opposite, you actually want to hit at lowest possible height or you will not get rejuggle consistently. This c2bs height is same as doing c2b after 3b be-g-(in juggle state). So if you already know how to time the c2b after 3b be-g- (in juggle state) you should understand the height im referring too. On the 3rd c2b you reset the loop and go for highest possible height again, Then lowest height,then highest height,then lowest height. This is most accurate way i have found to use the c2b loop after 22_88 b.

Sometimes for what ever reason the high height c2b will miss after 22_88 b-c2b-g for no reason really. I think its just an angle thing. So what i do is 22_88 b-c2b-g-3b be-g-c2b(lowest height)-g-c2b(highest height), repeat. The 3b be somehow stabilizes the way your opponent is juggled in the air. And it makes it so the timings for c2b i have mentioned are possible again. So hitting with 3b be anywhere during your juggle's will make it so the timings i have told you will work. So if you feel like the juggle is going to drop add a 3b be in there to stabilize them.