Mitsu General Discussion / Q&A

Syrpiektre

Syrpiektre

[09] Warrior
So... I guess the general consensus is that Mitsurugi is scrub-friendly :( I am inclined to agree, 'cause in the face of more complex, harder-to-use characters like Yoshi and Setsuka his plans are fairly straightforward. I dunno, I'm not great and I don't have much experience (the competition I've had so far is pretty weak, save for a guy at m' old workplace who crushed me with his Nightmare, way back in SC3). Still, I think the fact that he's slower in general creates a different feel for him than before. Now, I play the spacing game much more, even when I know I could rush, simply because up close Mitsurugi would lose. Actually learning a couple combos helps but I find that Mitsurugi relies on his tech traps (and therefore, mixups) even more.

To anyone who does play Mitsurugi with more moves than AA, BB, 3B and 2KB, how've you fared with him? Is he even someone you consider a main or is he just so simple now that playing him is like wearing a beginner's badge?
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

upclose mitsurugi is very dangerous due to his powerful mixups on block and post-GI game, actually his absurdly strong on any range now.

Mitsurugi has always been lacking a diverse toolset, in the end, you will rely on mid/2KB mixup above everything else and actually "outwitting" your opponent will come from his ability to guess mid/low. It is also something that makes mitsurugi completely predictable. I personally came to hate this character through years I've been using him, and recently only use him in tournaments, b/c I think he's boring to play in free play.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

:/ Hate? That's a... strong word ^_^;;

I agree too. I'm wondering what could possibly be done in terms of playstyle to reduce Mitsu's predictability. Just doing random stuff isn't going to win anything though. I really like Mitsu's style but anyone who's played the game in the past 4 years has probably seen all there is to see about Mitsurugi.

Man, I need to get into some of the local socials... but no time and too many commitments!
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Some things to consider that I've found useful are the various things you can do with Mist and Relic. It's not as extreme as some other character stances but it can add to the gameplay.

Some main things to consider are

transitioning to Mist can duck some mids and all highs
Mist A(a huge improvement over SC3)
Mist A+G
Mist B+G
and of course
Mist 6

going into relic and waiting for them to come to you then follow with
Relic B
Relic A
Relic A+B+K(if you can land it, you can really throw someone off their game)

I've found mixing in the stances other than just as part of combos to be very rewarding game play and a good way to mess around with your opponents head.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Yeah, Mist is awesome in terms of flexibility. It's too bad it's purely offensive when 2A kills it, as Belial pointed out. One thing also of note is that MST 66 is cancelable at any point, so if you're good use it to slide under a high right into whatever move you want to interrupt with. It's a little hard to control because Mitsu starts slow and then revs up towards the end when the TC kicks in, but I do think it's completely doable.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Actually I want to take back what I said before about Mitsu. It held true for SC2 and 3 but in SC4 I'm forced to use almost his entire movelist, so he's extremely fun to play.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

hes so fucking slow! ah i miss the days of just 2a, aa, bb people to defend myself. you have to block a lot more with this guy, and because of his slow normals you don't get that much free stuff on block anymore. knowing frame adv/disadvantages are more important than ever with mitsu so you know when you should and shouldnt attack. i get the feeling a lot of people i play don t realize just how slow he is yet, and they re in fear of his quick pokes so they let me get away with stuff. overtime i think winning with him will be more challenging.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Well, Mitsurugi has always been middle-of-the-road. The few things that made him a beast in SC3 was kB2, 2A+B and 22B VC. IMO if you're looking for someone who can interrupt and punish instantly play the sisters :P At least we haven't been as nuked as Astaroth, haha.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

DMystic said:
Some things to consider that I've found useful are the various things you can do with Mist and Relic. It's not as extreme as some other character stances but it can add to the gameplay.

Some main things to consider are

transitioning to Mist can duck some mids and all highs
Mist A(a huge improvement over SC3)
Mist A+G
Mist B+G
and of course
Mist 6

going into relic and waiting for them to come to you then follow with
Relic B
Relic A
Relic A+B+K(if you can land it, you can really throw someone off their game)

I've found mixing in the stances other than just as part of combos to be very rewarding game play and a good way to mess around with your opponents head.
Click to expand...


I've had trouble using Mist this way since you can't block when you're in the stance. How do you stop someone from just running up and BB?
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Syrpiektre: I think astaroth is still very strong. ^_^
socaliPIMP: Yes, I believe the game overall got much more difficult, you have to know exactly what you do, for example take sophies 4AAA:A if you block it it's like OMG guard damage. You have to duck and punish. Or many other unsafes - if you dont punish - you will eventually worsen your position etc. Also spacing became more of an issue since different tools have such different properties. Overall it got harder winning with about every character.

Jkoch: MST basic moves range far exceedes basic moves of most characters, it has all the tools to pressure your opponents at mid range or wakeups. You just need more experience. One of my teammates summed it up : "in SC3 when you went into MST I thought to myself :"whoa, free damage" and now I'm so scared, I think "How in the world am I supposed to get close?!"
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Yeah, Asta is still strong, just not as strong as his SC3 counterpart. Less (feasible) ability to knock back hurts a lot. As for Mitsu, I too noticed that now I'm playing much more mid-range game than close up like before. Keep people at about 1~1.5 chara spaces away is awesome stuff, and move in for 3A hehe. Catching people backpedaling with the tip of 1A and kB is still easy to do.

Jkoch, I agree with what Belial says. I use to be exactly the same, I would just cancel MST because I didn't want to be "naked" in terms of defense, but really, if you can enter MST at the right time you have to push the pressure. Switch up between KB, 6B, A as needed.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

My friend has said the same thing to me
He plays Siegfried and can be areal beast once he gets going with Roulette. In 3 when I'd go into MST he'd just step to the side and land a good hit.

Now it's like What the heck am I supposed to do to get in?

JKoch:If your opponent is running at you hit him with :A: or :6::B::B:
and if you wanted to you could do :6::(B): and go into Relic for some different options.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Thanks for the tips guys. I definately need more experience, that's for sure.

If anyone comes across videos showing this use of MST, will you please post them here?
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Check out the video thread in the forum. A good few of them show some of the uses (tl_crow's probably the best video right now).
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Syrpiektre said:
Well, Mitsurugi has always been middle-of-the-road. The few things that made him a beast in SC3 was kB2, 2A+B and 22B VC. IMO if you're looking for someone who can interrupt and punish instantly play the sisters :P At least we haven't been as nuked as Astaroth, haha.
Click to expand...

not sure about sc3, never played it but every other sc mitsu's a and 2a were as fast as any character in the game. it was great to defend yourself with or punish with on block. now hes missing these tools, seriously check his frame data hes as slow as anyone in the game now, when he used to be as fast as anyone!
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Yeah, AA and 2A are a little slower, by a couple frames. Honestly I don't think that's enough to put exclamation points around it, though, no offense. Not to nitpick but your last bit of logic doesn't make much sense... if he was fast as anyone, he was equal; now he's as slow as anyone, so he's still equal. Were you expecting a global cooldown on interrupts for everyone but Mitsurugi? Maybe it's because you skipped 3 that you don't feel the overall change, 'cause I certainly like this Mitsurugi as much as SC2 Mitsurugi, if not more because of more useful stance work... and if we still had SC2 Mitsurugi I don't know how well he would stack up in this game because of all the system changes.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

In SC4 Mitsurugi,s A is i15 which equals speed of some characters B-atacks. Some other characters he used to be on par still have i11~i12 A's. its +3~4 frames faster than mitsu's. You may see it in a way that any frame advantage that is less than +3~4 is not an advantage anymore...

Against taki for example, only thing you can do in adv less than +6 is spam 2A (even after 2A hit!) b/c she can trade/interrupt anything else.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

The thing I really don't quite see about the whole frame advantage/disadvantage thing, especially when it's something like +3, is that if you just block after a whiffed attack, what disadvantage are you really in? What do you lose? In a situation where, after my AA is blocked, I decide to block, I can still turn it to advantage if the opponent uses an unwise attack or doesn't attack at all. Obviously there are some very bad things that can come out of this, like giving up pressure and stuff, but that's where you have to be wise about it; really you wouldn't be using AA outside of step punishing anyway right? Maybe I'm just scrubifying the situation with my inexperience, so sorry for that if it is.

My point is that it isn't really so bleak for Mitsurugi, and even though knowing frames can be important just because the numbers say one thing (the current discussion saying he lost AA/BB/2A frames to other people) doesn't mean that he suddenly became low-tier. A character is a tool, and it's up to the players to put the tools to their proper use.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

Nobody claimed Mitsu is low tier, it's just he is slower, and thus more difficult to set up offence at close range.
 
Mitsurugi: General Discussion

I was just using it as an example, I certainly don't believe he is :) I completely agree that close-up offense is harder now, but it's something I think Mitsurugi needed anyway. Maybe I just stay too optimistic about things in general :P
 
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