Natsu Questions And Answers / General Discussion

mneme

[09] Warrior
Xavier, was fun playing you too, although you do want to mix it up a bit more; I don't reliably punish naked AAB (huh. Didn't realize it was as bad as -14; I should have tried more stuff) and 66bBE, but other people certainly will.

I usually beat Dampirre by beating his weird stuff with my weird stuff. Damp has a lot of setups that involve placing you into a disadvantagous (unusual) position and then mixing up. But Natsu has a lot of unusual movement options, which can provide a free escape (or counterattack) from some of them. For instance, I'll use 8AK or 44k vs poker bluff (the prone stance) and b+k can reverse some of his other setups, too.

Obviously, a better approach is to get the matchup knowledge and just know what to expect from him -- but one thing that's important is that knowing your own character (including knowing general escapes or counters for certain kinds of attacks) > knowing how to beat your opponent's character.
 

Force_of_Nature

[12] Conqueror
Natsu's AAB is actually tricky to punish due to pushback despite being -14. As long as your opponent can't punish -13 or -14 well (such as Pyrrha's or Patroklos' CE) from a bit of a distance, you can whore the move out and mix it up with AA6. 66B BE on the other hand should never be used from neutral unless you anticipate a backstep from your opponent. Use 66B or 66B4 instead.

As for Dampierre, he is almost entirely a gimmicky character. If you're losing to him, it's mostly due to a lack of matchup knowledge. Most of his moves have crappy range, so you don't really have to stay in his face and can zone him, forcing him to use attacks with greater range. If he lies on the ground, use tech jumping moves such as 8K or 8A+B to try and avoid his mixups. One of the great things about Natsu is that she has the tools to nullify a lot of the more gimmicky character's bullshit thanks to her great movement, fast poke speed with an i10 AA, along with having wind rolls, distorted breezes and stalker jumps.

I haven't implemented it as much as I should have in the past, but 6A+B4 is a surprisingly great move for Natsu. As long as you don't throw it out from point blank range, you can interrupt quite possibly anything with it not to mention having exceptional range.
 

LordXav1er

[10] Knight
Hmmm alright. Thanks for the tips guys. The problem with the MU part I think is I don't have him as a DLC and like no one really plays him xD.
 

kAb

[12] Conqueror
So as everyone knows bombs at high level aren't quite as good because people can block them on reaction and know the proper way to tech/not tech and eat 2a+b. well I've been messing around trying to land more bombs through unusual means and have come to find that using them from a ss to whiff punish has helped me land a ton more in my general gameplay.

Use moves that are slight negative like -4 and -6 as jg bait and try to elicit a response from your opponent that would deal with jg like a slow guard meter move. Step it and immediately 4a+b.

There are some strings you can do this too as well. Leixia 66bb, apat, FC 3b:b, Xiba 66bb and FC a+b, Voldo (b+k). Not every move recovers slow enough to hit a bomb so mess around and see what you can and can't punish in this way.
 

Force_of_Nature

[12] Conqueror
Hmmm alright. Thanks for the tips guys. The problem with the MU part I think is I don't have him as a DLC and like no one really plays him xD.

I used to play Oofmatic before. It wasn't fun -_-. Yeah, not many people touch Dampierre but you can take a sneak peak over at the Dampierre SA ;)
 

Force_of_Nature

[12] Conqueror
That's not a bad idea. Just curious. What are Natsu's worst/hardest MUs.

The Greeks tend to be a pain in the ass. Natsu hates anyone who can punish her well or can play a really good game of keepout. People who can fight really well in close range can be tricky too.

People to watch out for:

Alpha Patroklos
Patroklos
Pyrrha
Pyrrha Omega
Astaroth
Ivy
Viola
Cervantes

There may be some others, but these ones can be trouble if they're played properly. Aeon can be surprisingly effective against Natsu too thanks to good zoning and whiff punishment ability. Tira also seems to poke better in close.
 

Mr.MeatHook

[12] Conqueror
Aeon can be surprisingly effective against Natsu too thanks to good zoning and whiff punishment ability. Tira also seems to poke better in close.


JG 66A and you've beat 90% of online Aeons. And probably a good chunk of offline ones too.

You can punish just about anything he does, too so long as the pushback isn't too bad.
 

Force_of_Nature

[12] Conqueror
Pat MU i think is in Natsu favor.

OPyrrha is the wors for me.

Other characters are ok.

Out of the Greeks, Patroklos has the most even matchup with Natsu, but if played well he can be a troublesome opponent.

JG 66A and you've beat 90% of online Aeons. And probably a good chunk of offline ones too.

You can punish just about anything he does, too so long as the pushback isn't too bad.

I'm not talking about online Aeons that spam 66A, I'm talking about Aeons that actually use his movement and pokes properly. But yeah, scrubby Aeon's fall extremely fast to Natsu.
 

Force_of_Nature

[12] Conqueror
Who are the current top 5 Natsu's? If can name them. Videos to such would be appreciated as well :)

You really just need to watch kAb and Hawkeye, though OmegaXCN is also pretty good. Beyond those 3, I remember Saion89 having a great Natsu and HeartNana was good early on.



 

Rufus

[09] Warrior
Out of the Greeks, Patroklos has the most even matchup with Natsu, but if played well he can be a troublesome opponent.
He cant punish AAB (only with CE), cant do anything with 66B, have no advantage after 1K - this turns his life in to hell, and Natsu have other good tricks against him. It is very hard to play Pat against Natsu. Dont think it's even.

BTW Mitsu is very annoing too.
 

friend2luck

[10] Knight
He cant punish AAB (only with CE), cant do anything with 66B, have no advantage after 1K - this turns his life in to hell, and Natsu have other good tricks against him. It is very hard to play Pat against Natsu. Dont think it's even.

what?! he does?
Guess I need to hit the books and study this Match up
 

Force_of_Nature

[12] Conqueror
He cant punish AAB (only with CE), cant do anything with 66B, have no advantage after 1K - this turns his life in to hell, and Natsu have other good tricks against him. It is very hard to play Pat against Natsu. Dont think it's even.

BTW Mitsu is very annoing too.

Hmm interesting points, I'll take a look at the MU again in the future. I'm guessing AAB can negate his 1K~BB?

Mitsu's more a pain in the ass instead of a genuinely tough opponent. No matter who you use, you're just dealing with stupid 50/50's. All I can say is punish 2KB/2KB BE and 3B as much as possible. Also pay attention to when 4B is used so you can hit it with 66K or even 8KA.
 

L_to_Spell

[08] Mercenary
What are good circumstances to use 41236B?

I don't mind if they are noob-killer situations seeing as my offline buddies never see me use it outside of cancels.

(I am talking situations like Raphael doing 66A+B A/B 44A+B. Not true combos, just traps.)


Looking through the thread I saw this post and the only answer to his question I read regarded that it was guaranteed after 2A+B.
After playing in the lab I found a VERY dirty mix up. After a juggled A+B you can either do 4A+B to tech trap all or use 21436B to hit grounded. The only way they can beat the unblockable is to either Ukemi-Just Gaurd(Pffttt..) or to time a roll to Natsu's left which I doubt many who don't know the match up would do. Someone correct me if they don't think this setup is viable.

In the event you get the relaunch you can late cancel 4A+B with A and juggle with A+B again for the same mix up!
I'm surprised this isn't posted anywhere that I've looked if this mixup would be viable in tourney play. The unblockable does not scale so you get like 90 damage from it.
 

FleshMasher

[13] Hero
After a juggled A+B you can either do 4A+B to tech trap all or use 21436B to hit grounded.
After aerial A+B hit the opponent can also Ukemi~ step to evade the 4126B unblockable, or interrupt it with i15 attacks or faster.
Still okay i think because most smart people will stay down, in fear of bombs.
Although a roll-whiffed 41236B could result in eating a back throw (or other unhealthy stuff)
 

L_to_Spell

[08] Mercenary
After aerial A+B hit the opponent can also Ukemi~ step to evade the 4126B unblockable, or interrupt it with i15 attacks or faster.
Still okay i think because most smart people will stay down, in fear of bombs.
Although a roll-whiffed 41236B could result in eating a back throw (or other unhealthy stuff)

But the thing is that 4A+b tech traps left, front, back, and right ukemi. In other words if they start teching then stepping/interrupting the unblockable you can relaunch them.

Edit: Still they can time a roll to Natsu's left to avoid the unblockable, but I would consider the unblockable difficult to roll.

Edit2: Tested different punishments against this set up. Depending on the spacing the unblockable can be very difficult to roll. It appears the closer you are knocked down to Natsu the more precise the roll must be. If Natsu whiffs due to a roll then she can be punished by i15 moves but after that punishment is difficult. She cannot be back thrown for free if she whiff the unblockable. Due to the unblockable's ability to be cancelled early you could do an unblockable cancel into 2A+B to catch those who stand up, but this is of course gimmicky and not any sort of guaranteed setup.