Natsu range tables

Accordian_Man

[08] Mercenary
Hi Guys,

Anyone ever produced a table of Natsu's moves against their range?
I'm trying to figure out the best moves at different ranges.
A table of some kind would be useful.
Perhaps the ranges could be estimated from 1 to 10 as absolute ranges are not possible and long-medium-short don't mean much.
Any ideas?
 
Just came across this post, I've been trying to look at spacing with Natsu and was thinking about moves to perform at different ranges.

Long Range (Outside tip range for mid-range attackers)
- HOV A+B
- 66K*

Mid-Range (Tip range for mid-range attackers, well outside throw range, except for uh Astaroth)
- A+B*
- 8A+B
- 4A+B*
- 6B+KBBB
- 22/88B
- 22/88KA*
- 44A*
- 66AB
- 6A+B4

Close Range (Throw range)
- Everything else basically
- AAB*
- 6KA
- 2bA
- 6B
- 4A
- KK2K
- 3KKK*
- BKA
- 66B
- BB4A+B*
- 8KA
- 44B
- 11/77A
- 11/77K
- WR K
- WR B4A+B*
- A:6*
- 6AB*
- WR AAA*
- PO B
- 22/88A
- 4B

*Note that some of these moves are unsafe to use in close when blocked
 
you are underestimating the range on a few things, like 6A+B, 66B, and 6B.

Hmm... 6B & 6A+B do have great range surprisingly. 66B has decent range too, but I can't count how many times it has whiffed right in front of an opponent. I mainly focused on moves that are more intended to be used with some distance. 6B, 6A+B or 66B are usually used in fairly close.
 
Actually, I've found that 66b is probably Natsu's best mid/long-ranged poke. (well, that and 22B, but 22B is less safe while more likely to bait a whiff).

I think it's easier to classify moves by actual distance (and distance after the move completes; a very different number particularly for movement heavy characters like Natsu). Combined with the frame numbers, this gives you a pretty good picture of whether the move is suitable for a given range (you do actually need better numbers than these if you can get them -- there's a lot of variation here).

For instance, WR K is a very powerful move, and due to its combo starting nature, and the ability to chain with 2A and 2b (among others) people do tend to use it in close. But its still a pretty good ranged move, so people also tend to poke with it in midrange, fishing for counter hit.

By ontrast, 4B is pretty short ranged. So people will tend to only throw out 4B in close as a fishing move, but WR K is a midrange move that happens to be fast/safe enough that it also gets used in close.
 
22B is more safe than 66B.

i think this whole range table thread is kind of silly and pointless. you need to know your ranges where things will hit and no chart can tell you how to do that.
 
22B is safer than 66b, but 66b4 makes 66b safer than it would otherwise be. Also, up close, you pretty much always (should) use 22A; 22B is for closing range.

For the most part, I agree that you have to simply know your range. That said, I could see using range tables the same way people use timing tables -- to figure out what the best moves are and what moves can be used to punish which moves (and to look for potential mixups), and to calculate move safety. A move can be safe due to space the same way it can be safe due to time, after all.
 
Between 22B and 66B, I rarely get punished for both on block, but 22B's range seems to be deceptively longer and seems to "clip" the opponent at tip range (where only one blade hits and launches). 6A+B4 is also effective at mid-range if spaced well.

66B4 is pretty decent, but I find that most people know how to handle PO properly and either step you or interrupt the PO rush sequence. 66B4 also has 10 less dmg than 66B, but still provides some mix-up opportunities at times if you use 66B 3 times as often.
 
I think this is an interesting idea to test especially since some attacks have surprisingly good and some surprisingly crappy range.

But there are some things you have to keep in mind too:

  • Your pushback: For example 6B is really good frames on hit, but pushback makes even 66B whiff against 4B-ing Mitsu.
  • Your opponent: See above
  • Your opponent's pushback: On block or hit
  • Attack properties depending on range: 3B on tip range makes followup AA whiff, CH 6A+B on tip range (partial hit) gives PO A:6~ 3KKK... combo. Stuff like that also affects tech traps i think.
I want to add that mid range tier needs to be split up.
Because 66K for example reaches farther than 66B, even beats the above-mentioned 4B attempt by mitsu after 6B on hit.

Another thing:
Whiffing really sucks, a single backstep of the opponent can hurt badly so it may be better to use an unsafe 66K for example before whiffing completely. Or just don't attack when you have the choice between an unsafe 66K or a backsteppable 66B or situations like that. Guard or reposition yourself instead.
 
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