Nightmare's Ground Control game or OKI game.

[Engared]

This is arguably one of the most important facets of Nightmare's playstyle but yet it has hardly been covered.

IMO, you have to be very disciplined when playing with Nightmare, cause a whiffed OKI can lead to you handing the advantage back to your opponent with nothing to show from it besides Pyrrha's sword up your behind.

That being said, almost all of Nightmare's slow moves if they connect hit extremely hard on grounded opponents as such these can be considered "added on damage" to the end of combos. Getting as many blocked 66Bs as possible is also recommended.

IMO: Nightmare's best OKI moves are GSB, 1K, 2K, 2B, GS K BE.

What set-ups can we create to give us as many of these as possible and are there any other moves out there which should be considered when attempting ground pressure?

 

[Tiamat]

Wakeup games (tested by recording NM doing this stuff on me, I'm pyrrha here):
A+G
- GS B/1A/1(A) tracks NM left not his right if they side roll
- GS K tracks your left but they can block. backroll gets hit regardless
- 2A+B tracks right and can't be blocked. whiff to your left and hits backroll but no AT
- throw catches if they stand up immediately and block. no side throw anymore though.
- 33B tracks right but can be blocked (bad)
- 44B tracks right but can be blocked
- 3B/66B are siderollable both sides
- 2B+K BE it doesn't matter where they roll. if they stand up immediately they can't jump cause it's S mid, and can't jump after rolling either. if they backroll they can GI it. they can stand up immediately and hit you
- low grab catches side rollers from behind and pickup

Left side throw (weaker one):
- GS B left rollable like usual.
- 3B hits all roller
- flapjack doens't work
- 11B for left roller (but they can block)

Right side throw (stronger one):
- GS B left rollable
- 3B hits all roller
- flapjack doesn't work on side rollers.
- 2A+B whiffs on side rollers

Back throw:
- GS B same story
- 3B hit all roller
- flapjack fail on side roller and 2A+B whiff just like above

2A+B AT
- GS B and 1A are same as above
- GS K whiffs on both sides. trash
- 2A+B hits if they roll to your right (but not AT), but if they left or backroll you miss
- throw whiffs if you grab immediately. they take longer to stand from this knockdown.
- 33B tracks your right and if they try to roll then block immediately it will launch
- 44B tracks your right (they can block tho) and back
- 3B/66B rollable both sides
- 2B+K BE is the same.
- low grab catches side rollers from behind and pickup

NSS K
- 66B tracks all ukemi. if they backroll they can GI/JG it. if they lie roll CCW they can avoid it, but GS K BE will catch, or GS B, or 1(A)

NSS bA (not from a juggle)
- 66B tracks all ukemi
- can't grounroll it period
- backroll gets away, but if near ring edge....or you do running 66B...

NSS bA (from WR B juggle)
- 66B track back and left roll but not right. pyrra can wakeup stab you

NSS A+B (from WR B juggle)
- tracks back and left roll but not right. like previous, however, pyrrha cannot wakeup stab you

NSS bA (from 3B juggle)
worse than from WR B. this one really sucks

FC B grab
- very solid 66B setup, they can back tech and GI

agA
- super solid, near flawless GS B setup. only problem is if agA is a tip hit they will be out of range unless you delay the GS B. also if they front ukemi they can GI it

GS K BE
- good 1(A) setup. if they side ukemi they have to block/GI/JG the 1(A) or jump it, but 1aK will beat jump attacks here easily. they can groundroll left to avoid 1(A) though.



That should be most of the knockdowns, but not all the possible followups in every case. Decide for yourself what you want to do with this information. As you can see my oki testing was focused a lot on getting forced blocks for GS B and 66B for guard meter reasons. If there is any error or you have questions ask.

 

[microgamer]

3AA seems to have a really good knockdown too. I haven't tested it, but I usually run up 66B and it feels like a force block.

I think post A+G and 2A+B AT are his most important knockdowns. 2B+K BE seems like an almost universal solution for rollers. Can someone explore what we get if quakestun hits a grounded opponent? I feel GS K BE can combo after it.

I've been using 44B more since it tracks right. What are our options on block? I feel that 44(B) > NSS K almost can't be interrupted.

In this post, lots of feel.

 

[Tiamat]

3AA seems to have a really good knockdown too. I haven't tested it, but I usually run up 66B and it feels like a force block.

I think post A+G and 2A+B AT are his most important knockdowns. 2B+K BE seems like an almost universal solution for rollers. Can someone explore what we get if quakestun hits a grounded opponent? I feel GS K BE can combo after it.

I've been using 44B more since it tracks right. What are our options on block? I feel that 44(B) > NSS K almost can't be interrupted.

In this post, lots of feel.

yeah from 3AA I just kinda run at them and do 66B or a 3B/grab mixup

Agree about A+G and 2A+B AT being his most important knockdowns. Those were the first 2 I tested.

For 44(B) on block you can NSS K to beat out most things or use NSS A+B for a mid. For mixup you could do NSS B, GS to a WR mixup, or you could do 44B without going to NSS then go straight to a grab if they are trained to keep blocking from 44(B). The block recovery on regular 44B is worse than in SC4 but I still think 44B > grab should be a decent strategy from time to time.

 

[hteng]

Add 2(A) to your ground pressure too, huge advantage on block

 

[Engared]

Add 2(A) to your ground pressure too, huge advantage on block

1 (A) you mean? :)

 

[hteng]

1 (A) you mean? :)

doh, yea my bad D:

 

[Anid_Maro]

For 44(B) on block you can NSS K to beat out most things or use NSS A+B for a mid. For mixup you could do NSS B, GS to a WR mixup, or you could do 44B without going to NSS then go straight to a grab if they are trained to keep blocking from 44(B). The block recovery on regular 44B is worse than in SC4 but I still think 44B > grab should be a decent strategy from time to time.

Also of note is that NSS bA dodges many high attacks, so if your opponent tries for a quick counter hit after blocking 44(B) you might be able to give them a lil' surprise if they strike high.