Objective discussion on mechanics

[DiBiddilyBop]

Lain, I think the main problem here with your mindset is that you don't like CFs, because your mindset on Risk/Reward is basically ignoring the fact that CFs are in the game.

If I am going to try to GI something, I want the possibility to at least equal or more than outdamage my opponent's attack.

So if I'm reading this correctly, you want to recover some of your soul gauge, damage your opponent's soul gauge, and inflict even or more damage on your opponent than they were going to inflict on you? That somehow seems "even" to you?

Lets say you 4/1GI someone away from a wall, for some characters, this is actually a hindrance because of their bad range. I can't count how many times I've GI'd with Amy and been put at a disadvantage because they were knocked farther away from me than where they started the move.

Ok, let's not speak in indefinite terms here, when you say "some characters," you're talking about Amy. Amy is the only character with a range so short that it would suffer from this, and I would argue that is probably by design as Amy is so good in every other area that she has to have some drawbacks.

Your other point that I have a major problem with is regarding positioning:

You don't require a wallsplat to do big damage. This is too situational and I cannot stress this enough. Not only is it stage dependent, but it's situational because of your current position... really shitty.

Wait... so having situational problems dependent on position is "shitty"? As a Zasalamel player, I am always *very* conscious of my positioning in the ring, what stage it is, where my ring out and corner opportunities are, and how I can get my opponent in the worst possible position. I make a conscious effort to put my opponent at a disadvantage in regards to positioning, so trivializing positioning in the game and calling it random just sounds like you're not paying attention. I'm sure that some players who got thrown out of the ring three rounds in a row thought I was pretty lucky to keep getting my back up against the ledge.

It's interesting that you're protesting that they're "dumbing down" the gameplay, however the changes you seem to have the most problem with (soul gauge and CFs) are adding an additional element to the fight, which can only be translated as more depth.

 

[lain]

Lain, I think the main problem here with your mindset is that you don't like CFs, because your mindset on Risk/Reward is basically ignoring the fact that CFs are in the game.



So if I'm reading this correctly, you want to recover some of your soul gauge, damage your opponent's soul gauge, and inflict even or more damage on your opponent than they were going to inflict on you? That somehow seems "even" to you?



Ok, let's not speak in indefinite terms here, when you say "some characters," you're talking about Amy. Amy is the only character with a range so short that it would suffer from this, and I would argue that is probably by design as Amy is so good in every other area that she has to have some drawbacks.

Your other point that I have a major problem with is regarding positioning:



Wait... so having situational problems dependent on position is "shitty"? As a Zasalamel player, I am always *very* conscious of my positioning in the ring, what stage it is, where my ring out and corner opportunities are, and how I can get my opponent in the worst possible position. I make a conscious effort to put my opponent at a disadvantage in regards to positioning, so trivializing positioning in the game and calling it random just sounds like you're not paying attention. I'm sure that some players who got thrown out of the ring three rounds in a row thought I was pretty lucky to keep getting my back up against the ledge.

It's interesting that you're protesting that they're "dumbing down" the gameplay, however the changes you seem to have the most problem with (soul gauge and CFs) are adding an additional element to the fight, which can only be translated as more depth.

Ok so since everyone is furiously masturbating over CF discussion:

You guys are trying way too hard to like this game. CFs shouldn't be in here at all. You lose matches for blocking, instantly and not using a GI system that isn't nearly as rewarding as it should be, for what you stand to lose.

Wait... so having situational problems dependent on position is "shitty"?

Yes, it is. This game already has ring outs and walls. This adds a bit of "Random" factor that allows for insanely retarded upsets. You shouldn't be rewarded for starting on a certain side of the god damn stage or having to work your way to the optimal part to win. It's too random and most people who play at high level DO NOT LIKE IT.

Also, standing grabs. Lol just Lol. Grab moves during a TC way too fucking reliably now. Lots of regular Highs seem to hit as well.

 

[Cloud073]

I do think some of the mechanics are too hard for casuals. For example I ran into a Mitsurugi ground spammer with 33 wins in a row. Even though there are a lot of people who can stop this, this type of activity will drive players away.
In reality I think they made the game more frustrating by making you get up so slow. I'm not sure SCIV will ever reach a high popularity level when stuff like this frustrates players.

 

[lain]

I do think some of the mechanics are too hard for casuals. For example I ran into a Mitsurugi ground spammer with 33 wins in a row. Even though there are a lot of people who can stop this, this type of activity will drive players away.
In reality I think they made the game more frustrating by making you get up so slow. I'm not sure SCIV will ever reach a high popularity level when stuff like this frustrates players.

This is a casuals fucking dream are you kidding me?

 

[Cloud073]

This is a casuals fucking dream are you kidding me?

No I'm not. If the mechanics are simply recognized as spam combos no one is going to be interested in the rest of the game mechanics and will get bored and leave after a few months.

 

[Cloud073]

Does anyone else hate getting thrown from 2A or 2K? It really is annoying. Does anyone know why they changed it?

 

[BlackDragon37]

^ Fucking truth.

 

[DiBiddilyBop]

Ok so since everyone is furiously masturbating over CF discussion:

You guys are trying way too hard to like this game. CFs shouldn't be in here at all. You lose matches for blocking, instantly and not using a GI system that isn't nearly as rewarding as it should be, for what you stand to lose.

Wait... so having situational problems dependent on position is "shitty"?

Yes, it is. This game already has ring outs and walls. This adds a bit of "Random" factor that allows for insanely retarded upsets. You shouldn't be rewarded for starting on a certain side of the god damn stage or having to work your way to the optimal part to win. It's too random and most people who play at high level DO NOT LIKE IT.

Also, standing grabs. Lol just Lol. Grab moves during a TC way too fucking reliably now. Lots of regular Highs seem to hit as well.

Lain, you are completely contradicting yourself. You argue that SC4 is "dumbing down" the gameplay, and yet you have a problem with two things that add depth: Soul Gauge and ring position. Your opinion is that CFs shouldn't be in the game, and you're trying to base a factual argument off that opinion which isn't how it works. You don't derive facts from opinions. If you don't use GIs and you want to turtle, you're going to get CFed. The reward for using GIs is you get to not instantly lose the round. I doubt anyone can really argue that forcing aggression in a fighting game is somehow a bad thing.

As far as ring positioning goes, you're still trying to push that there's some random factor here which just isn't present. You are in control of your position in the ring and the stages are symmetrical, so the first round you are always on even footing with your opponent. After that, working your way to optimal position is *often very necessary* to be effective, so deal with it. Ring outs and walls are part of positioning... one wouldn't matter without the other, so saying

This game already has ring outs and walls.

and then arguing that you shouldn't have to work to be in an optimal position is pure nonsense. Have you noticed that the 8 way run is kind of a trademark of the SC series? It's kind of the name of this site? Positioning is a huge deal. Maybe 2D fighters would be a little more your speed.

The only thing I will agree with you on is throws during a TC. That's just a bug in the game and should be fixed because, yes, it is retarded.