Racism or Reality?

K0rN_b4LL

K0rN_b4LL

[14] Master
Before I start I just wanna say that I know this is probably gonna go off the rails pretty darn fast, especially given the controversial nature of this topic and how emotional the country is about it right now. This is one reason why I'm putting it in this section instead of General Discussion. That being said when I read this I thought it too interesting (for lack of a better word) to not share.
http://news.yahoo.com/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism-070000529.html

So which do you think this is? The opinion in this article seems to reflect the feelings of a growing number of Americans towards minorities and why racial tensions seem to be getting worse instead of getting better in out country. That people like Sharpton and the NAACP seem to believe that black's rights are more important than the rights of other Americans and whatever crimes they may commit are not as important as protecting the perpetrator's civil rights. That the main problem with the black community is a lack of proper education and children being raised in poor and unsupporting settings, and a lot of them without parents.

On the other hand it almost seems like the article is saying that it is ok to profile people based on race. That you can look at a black or Hispanic man or woman and just assume that they commit crimes. That the thought of "Oh look out for that black guy, he might try to rob or kill you" is ok.


I'm really torn with this. I believe each person is responsible for their own destiny and you can't judge one person because of something that another person did. On the other hand the growing amount of problems coming out of minority communities has me getting worried and when I walk down the street I find myself looking at the people around me and judging them just on how they look in my head. It's getting harder and harder for me to tell what is right these days.



What are your thoughts on this? I wanna add the whole "let's keep it civil" bit in but.......yeah. I know how folks can get. Lets at least try to get maybe one page of real discussion before the trolls get this thing locked, okay?
 
I believe that America as a country has gotten so caught-up in protecting 'minorities' that we've ended up, well, sort of oppressing whites.

There are quotas that companies have for the amount of black/hispanic/etc. people they MUST hire. I realise this is supposed to prevent discrimination but to me it seems like it does exactly the opposite - Caucasian people do not get jobs because those companies MUST hire black/hispanic/etc. people. Another thing I've noticed is that in general nobody gives two shits if a black guy is speaking anti-white statements or saying things like "I hate white people" or anything of that sort. However, if a white person was to speak out about that sort of thing they're viewed as a racist.
Something that comes to mind is the entire Trayvon Martin case - A LOT of people are angry that George Zimmerman got acquitted - My personal opinion is yeah, he should've, self-defense, but I'm sure if the situation was reversed it wouldn't be so much a race issue as just a murder, and probably would've never grown this big.

I feel like America is so caught-up in trying not to be racist that we've actually become racist.
 
I don't believe so, if I remember correctly.
You can wear a black pride, mexican bride, asian pride, brown pride shirt, tattoos, whatever, and that's perfectly acceptable in America, but the moment you put on a White Pride shirt you are viewed as a racist or a bigot.

Basically, America is trying to make white people feel guilty for being white.. which is exactly what was happening to other minorities.
 
South Of Heaven said:
I feel like America is so caught-up in trying not to be racist that we've actually become racist.
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This is absolutely something we all can agree on. But more importantly, the issue of racism will continue to drag on to newer generations unless the media stops whoring it every time they get a chance, but that will never happen because hatred sells. I mean, just look at Fox News, an entire network based exclusively on hatred and sensationalism. Perhaps in 20-30 years racism will have decreased in scope because all the people born before the civil rights movement will be dead, but no social movement happens overnight.
South Of Heaven said:
You can wear a black pride, mexican bride, asian pride, brown pride shirt, tattoos, whatever, and that's perfectly acceptable in America, but the moment you put on a White Pride shirt you are viewed as a racist or a bigot.
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All racial pride is stupid, be it "black pride" or "white pride" or whatever the hell they come up with next. Real diversity isn't about what you look like or where you're from, but about how you think, what you do, and what your experiences are. What's most ironic is that often the people who believe in this pride bullshit have more in common with the minorities they oppose than with the aristocrats they vote for or the leaders of their religious affiliations.
K0rN_b4LL said:
I thought affirmative action was banned a long time ago?
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You've obviously never been to a top-tier or Ivy League school.
 
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White Americans, especially ones with as little life perspective and the sense of entitlement that the average American has, just don't understand racism. Most white people talking about racism in fleeting, because they see something in the news they don't like or they heard such and such from this guy or that girl. For many minorities, racism is a fact of life. If likened to art, a white males life is a blank canvas and he is able to form a piece and what his viewers see, while a black man in America is much more like an impressionist painting - his viewer first conception of what he sees already in mind, that man either has to reinforce or break away from what the viewer may think it is.

That being said, the socioeconomic divides cut much deeper than racism. Racism leads to more extremes (violence) but socioeconomic problems (which often go hand in hand with race and region) are much wider spread and less tangible than racism.

On another note, I've always found it funny that people in the FGC bitch about things needing nerfs or buffs in fighting games, but, when it comes to things like AA or tax reform in real life, they take a completely different perspective. Guess everyone's a communist until you fuck with their money.

It's fine if anyone wants to reply but don't expect a reply in turn.
 
imo most perceived racism in america is a class issue, not a race issue. that said;

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk...
Why you ain't
Where you is
What he drive
Where he stay
Where he work
Who you be...
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.
In fact, you will never get any kind of job making a decent living. People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.
The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.
These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what??
And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.
Where were you when he was 2??
Where were you when he was 12??
Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol??
And where is the father?? Or, who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward, isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?
Or, are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up?
Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?
What part of Africa did this come from??
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans. They don't know a thing about Africa .
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed. Today, a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.
We have millionaire football players who cannot read.
We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs.
We, as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal- Mart with seven kids... you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer."

- Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.
 
Blame is easy. It's basically anger. And anger tells the best stories. Such stories can even stand up in the court of law. Hell, it even feels better to blame others for our problems.

The thing about blame (b-lame) however, is that it's also disempowering to the person/people doing the blaming.

If I blame the government, or women, or white people etc. for my problems, then it's their responsibility to make me better.

Which it turn means that there's nothing I can do about my situation. In other words, I'm powerless. And it's a vicious cycle if we don't catch ourselves - blame others for my problems, feel better for a bit, start feeling powerless, blame the same people for my powerlessness, feel better about it, feeling more powerless, ad nauseum.

And then I end up believe that freedom is having no responsibility whatsoever.

So... if I can't blame other people for my problems, should I blame myself?

No. It isn't necessary.

Edit: I notice I'm dropping gems in this bitch. Self-awareness FTW!!! :P
 
Norik said:
Not really. The reason I say Ivy league is because of affirmative action (which is still very much a thing in top tier schools).
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And in the job-world!
I was actually denied a job due to AA over the summer (or so I believe.)
Personally, I think racism is a thing people should just kind of.. get over. I'm not saying it's that easy, but people should placing such big importance on "omg he called this guy a SLUR". It happens. People say things to other people that are mean. Just because it's about race it shouldn't make it a big deal, imo.

inb4 "you could never understand"
 
South Of Heaven said:
Personally, I think racism is a thing people should just kind of.. get over. I'm not saying it's that easy, but people should placing such big importance on "omg he called this guy a SLUR". It happens. People say things to other people that are mean. Just because it's about race it shouldn't make it a big deal, imo.
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yes!
 
South Of Heaven said:
And in the job-world!
I was actually denied a job due to AA over the summer (or so I believe.)
Personally, I think racism is a thing people should just kind of.. get over. I'm not saying it's that easy, but people should placing such big importance on "omg he called this guy a SLUR". It happens. People say things to other people that are mean. Just because it's about race it shouldn't make it a big deal, imo.

inb4 "you could never understand"
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I used to take that perspective until I actually sat down and thought about it. Of course, it started when my friend's and I were discussing race as an issue because it always comes up. But think about it.

racism inherently is ignorance.

You don't really know what you're doing is racist because you don't know. You weren't taught that way, and you weren't brought up that way, so you don't actually know what you're doing is wrong or mean or cruel or injust or what have you. You don't know. It is ingrained in your culture and in your upbringing.. you don't realize that you're being racist.

doesn't seem fair does it? Some of the actions are basically just going by what you know. You're not trying to intentionally be mean or out to hurt people. this is going by the presumption that people are generally nice and mean well. But when you're ignorant of it, and you don't know why you're offending this person and why he's offended, that's what it means in terms of racism.

my point is, when you tell "someone to get over it." That's being cold. because you're basically allowing this sort of ignorance to continue. and saying, "this is okay, you're the one who's wrong. deal with it."

how is that in any way okay?

put it to you this way.. you're sitting there, enjoying a moment with your friends, when someone comes over and spills their entire cup of water onto you. But instead of apologizing they simply brush it off and say, "hey, it's only water, right?" you wouldn't be offended?

so to, you see an action that might be considered racist, but instead of educating the man and bringing light upon his ignorance, you just tell the other guy, "hey, get over it." Is that not a fucked up thing to say to someone? Sure, you could follow up with "he/she didn't mean anything by it" but when does that ever mitigate a situation? if anything that throws fuel on the fire.

Now, am I for AA? No. That's a cop out and people should be hired based on their merits and connections enforcing their reputation. I don't think anyone of any race should be in full support of AA. However, because these stigmas exist that companies are prejudice and they have to fight that stigma in some manner or way, from a business stand point, I can see how they would need AA as a necessary evil, because you never know... there might be a situation where they would give someone the leg up just because of race. And that's not a fair stand point either. Do I agree with it? not by any means, but understanding that this is the world we live in where we all have to cover our ass, I can understand why AA exists.

my other point I'm trying to get around to is that you have to take a step back and view things from other angles, because if you do that, you'll broaden your own perspective.

my 2 cents contributed..
 
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South Of Heaven said:
Personally, I think racism is a thing people should just kind of.. get over. I'm not saying it's that easy, but people should placing such big importance on "omg he called this guy a SLUR". It happens.
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Okay, stop. You make it sound as if racial slurs are the be-all end-all of racism. The world is not going to just 'get over' it and if you stick your fingers in your ears and say lalalala really loud, it's still not going to go away. Racism is ugly, it's violent and it's very real. You're arguing about a reservation quota? Well how about hate crime? How about being considered a terrorist because you vaguely resemble a muslim to a world that makes no distinction between Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims? Even if they did, is it alright to attack a Muslim for being one?
Like Prabhjot Singh who was attacked in New York earlier this week. He made this statement:
People keep asking me what it feels like to have been assaulted in a hate crime," Singh wrote in the New York Daily News. "Honestly, I can't come up with a better response than simply 'gratitude.'"

He went on to explain, "I'm thankful for a few reasons. If they had attacked me any more violently, I may not be awake right now to tell my story. If they had attacked me even half an hour earlier, they would have harmed my wife and one-year-old son. And if they had attacked me anywhere else, I may not have had bystanders there to save me."
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That takes a real man. That takes a real, humane, global citizen to answer an attempt on his life like this, without the kind of hatred that was shown to him.
What I'm trying to say is, yeah, reservation sucks. But if you think for one second that racism in any form is okay then you need to put yourselves in these people's shoes instead of sitting on your throne and commenting on things you know nothing about. Racial slurs are the little foreshadowings that can and have resulted in the taking of lives. For what? For being a different fucking color than you? For saying 'tom-ah-to' instead of 'tom-a-to'? Racism is not okay and it's never going to be okay.
 
Racism is bad. I am against it and racist people.

I have seen first hand what race-based violence can be and it is not pretty.

I just don't think I could ever stop making race jokes. As long as that's all they are.( My buds love to crack at me for my Puerto Rican and Canadian background haha.)
 
What people are getting hung up on here is the shit that's verbal. But that's just one part. That's not the whole issue, and you can't just black and white it and say "Racists are bad" because fact is, most people don't even know what they're doin is racist. read the article about the "Pie in the face" moments that Questlove talks about.

the problem is, the shit is ingrained in your culture. it is about how you were brought up. words like Nigga, niggarette, gook, cracker, nigger, chink, jap, habibi, what have you, that's miniscule. Those are insults that you know are made to hurt people. You are brought up to understand those are curse words. and when you say them, you're

A: trying to purposefully insult someone.
B: acknowledge someone in a derogatory way.
C: completely oblivious to the fact that these are negative words.
D: Trying to lessen the power of these words by desensitizing them. (good luck with that)

allowing racists to openly talk... For one, how do they know they're racists? just cause people tell them? and what's their usual response? "I'm not tryin to be racist I'm just tryin to be. I'm sorry if I offended you. didn't mean to" but never the less you did. But the thing is, they don't know they're being racist. That's my point.

why?

because racism is inherently ignorance.

the shit goes hand in hand. The shit is so buried within your upbringing that you don't even realize that it's there. The stereotypes that exist, they exist for a reason. At this point, it's part of who you are. it's not easy to just uproot this and deny its existence. No, but Immortal Technique does make a point.. It needs to be discussed. it needs to be talked about. it needs to be brought out of ignorance. So there's no longer that, "I didn't know I was being racist" excuse. Because right now, in this moment in time, it's locked in deep.

and when you start talking about other people's personalities, when you talk about or even criticize them.. They're going to get defensive. And some people are going to be stubborn, some closed minded, some open.. and this is another problem with racism.

because not only is it based on ignorance, but it's also based on your upbringing. How do you even stop that? for you? it may be too late. but for future generations, they still have hope. but the first step is to bring racism out of the realm of ignorance. and that requires a lot of discussion on racism.
 
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The requirement for an open and honest discussion on any topic is that all opinions on that topic are valid.

All of them. No exceptions.

Which means judgement goes out the window. And self-awareness, and therefore vulnerability is a must have.

See, when we request an "honest, open discussion" on a sensitive topic, we usually don't want an open, honest discussion on the topic. What we want is a debate in which we can win.

For example, if I "wanted" an "open discussion" on racism, I won't be seeking honesty. I'll be seeking ways to get/force my opponent(s) to agree with my views. If that occurs, then I'll say "We had an open discussion on racism, and we made progress!" If it doesn't then I'll say "We had an open discussion on racism, and we made congress!"

That's like being soldiers with full armour on, attacking each other with weapons.

An open honest discussion is throwing down all weapons, and taking off every single piece of armour we have on each other until we're all facing each other naked. Defenceless. Vulnerable.

But there's no way we can be honest with each other without first looking at where we're dishonest with each other. That's why I said what I said. Evil cannot pass unless it's embraced.
 
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