Dreamkiller
Equal Sign Slash
In-Depth PO talk.
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i think maybe i should outline some main goals of getting into PO:
- PO B: safe, forces crouch, mid. i would actually prefer landing PO B on block than PO A/B on hit, because landing PO A deals about 20 dmg, while PO B deals about 32 dmg, while 7 blocked PO Bs lead to CF.
- hover RO: both hover options RO.
- hover B damage: the best mixup damage taki has.
- PO K: + on block for mixups, shakeable stun on hit.
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here's taki's options from PO:
PO A: fast, only PO move that cuts step, safe, gives spin stun into slight + frames. most importantly, the 2nd hit is so fast that opponents can't interrupt with AA/2A/TC moves (they'll get hit if they duck/let go of guard). key point: PO A cuts step weakly to taki's left.
PO B: 7 blocked PO Bs to CF. 32 dmg on normal hit (though nothing guaranteed after).
PO K: it's a linear high that's just slightly faster than PO B. but it gives frames on block, so that's something. mix up with PO B for instant PO mixup. post-PO K on block, the options are endless. don't forget the shakeable stun on hit, even though you'll probably never land it clean outside of PO 8wr PO K.
note: even if i don't mention it in the specific PO shifts, if you think the opponent is going to freeze, you HAVE to do either PO B, PO K or a hover mixup.
hover mixup: both options RO to the front, hover B does 60+ dmg. though my recommendation is to consider hover moves as evasion methods against AA/2A interrupts, rather than a staple mixup, because both options are highly steppable and back-jumpable, especially after 3bK PO (which pushes back).
hover mixup works well as anti-GI because of the mixup damage/soul damage on hover B, but also because even if the opponent didn't GI, you probably still ended up evading a few moves and possible dealing decent actual damage/soul damage.
and instead of repeating this for all PO strings, i'll just say it here: for most situations, hover mixup will jump 2As cleanly, but 2A recovers in time before hover B hits, thus necessitating the need to mix in hover A. the only exception is 33A PO on hit, where hover B will hit before 2A can recover. also, after 33A PO on hit, hover B will hit an opponent's whiffed GI before it can recover.
it also seems that hover B is faster than hover A. try this scenario: do BB PO on block into hover A/B, and have an opponent soph do 3A to interrupt. soph'll be able to block hover B in time but not hover A.
PO rush (PO A): PO rush by itself TCs, which is key against fast AA interrupts in some of the less advantageous PO shifts. but only PO A gives you the speed to punish moves/interrupt strings after ducking. the input for this would be something like PO 66A. interestingly enough, this allows taki to duck a high hit and immediately counter with PO A. it beats all sorts of A strings, such as AA, AB and AK.
PO 8wr: useful if you think the opponent is trying to spam Bs to hit you out of hover/PO, but usually opponents will try interrupting with AA or 2A instead. in any case, i recommend following up with PO B on a successful evade.
note: i don't mention the usage of PO rush or PO 8wr in all of the PO shifts unless it's a necessary counter against interrupts, but it's definitely useful to incorporate into your gameplay if you wish.
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if i had to rank the frame advantage of each PO shift, it'd be something like this:
1BA PO ~ 33A PO >> AB PO ~ BA PO > 3bK PO > mekkimaru PO ~ BB PO >> 4A PO
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now i'll go into a bit of detail on what options taki has going into PO, and how they can be used to counter opponent actions. the intricacies of taki's hover hitbox can be very iffy, depending on the PO shift used and the opponent's counterattack. therefore i'll be documenting how hover b works against taki's own AA, KK, 2A and BB.
1BA PO
on hit:
- PO A/PO B is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits BB and max range AA; AA at close range or KK at any range will go under it
on block:
- PO A is uninterruptible, not even by AAs or 2As
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits BB and max range AA, but AA at close range, or KK at any range will go under it
general info:
whenever possible, 1BA PO should be used to punish everything after blocking/baiting a whiff/stepping, just so you can lead to PO B. 1B looks to be just 1~2 frames slower than taki's B.
do take note that if the first hit of 1BA connects with a crouching opponent, the 2nd hit will automatically connect as NC regardless. but if the first hit is blocked, the opponent is free to duck the second hit, and gets free WS moves (taki's WS A guaranteed at least). any subsequent PO evasion methods will be too slow and be hit out of. 1B done by itself is also unsafe. therefore you HAVE to be careful on block, and possibly add in stuff like 1B step 33B, 1B step 1BA, 1BA 22A (22A has early step and TC frames), 1B GI (the GI has to be delayed because iWS moves are usally slow from human input) and others.
33A PO
on hit:
- PO A/PO B is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can't recover in time)
- hover B hits 2A and BB, loses to AA and KK (both go under it)
on block:
- PO A trades hits with AA, loses to 2A but beats KK and BB
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA, BB (both interrupted in mid-air) and KK (goes under it)
general info:
33A is notable for being the only PO shift that has hover B hit 2A before the opponent can block. and yet on block, PO A doesn't beat AA. however, 33A's followup B hits (only AA-punishable) make interrupting harder for the opponent, and it's useful for cutting step.
AB PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (goes under it) and KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BB
on block:
- PO A loses to AA and 2A, but beats KK and BB
- PO rush PO A against AA
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interupted on the ground), KK (interrupted in mid-air) and BB (goes under it)
general info:
AB PO should really only be used against opponents without fast AAs. either that or if you think you can beat out the opponent's incoming attack, or if you blocked/stepped a move that you can't punish with 1BA. but taki's A speed means you can't ignore this PO shift. if you want to go for damage, AB 4A+B A (NC) is an option.
BA PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover loses to KK (goes under it), but hits AA, BB
on block:
- PO A loses to AA and 2A, but beats KK and BB
- PO rush PO A against AA
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interrupted on the ground), KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BB
general info:
overshadowed by 1BA, in terms of frames into PO. but take note that 1B is unsafe and B isn't.
also, be aware that BA PO on hit against crouching opponent does not make opponent stand, so the opponent will crouch under the second A hit for free 2A/WS moves.
3bK PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible (but do note that because of 3bK's crazy pushback, PO A may whiff)
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits AA, KK and BB
on block:
- PO A loses to AA, KK and 2A, but beats BB
- PO rush A against AA and KK
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interrupted on the ground) and KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BBs
general info:
3bK pushes back too far for my liking, but it has its uses as a double mid into a relatively fast PO shift. don't whore the hover moves because the pushback makes them even more easily stepped/back-jumped. PO A also whiffs occasionally due to the pushback. on another note, 3bK is really useful on wall splat due to its speed and range. wall splat 3bK PO B does decent damage (44B 3bK PO B does 76 dmg).
mekkimaru PO (2bA, WS AA, 6KA, bomb cancel A, etc)
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits AA and BB, but loses to KK (interrupted in mid-air)
on block:
- PO A loses to AA, 2A, KK, BB
- PO rush PO A against AA, KK
- PO 8wr against BB
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA, 2A, KK, BB (all interrupted on the ground)
- PO 7_8_9K against 2A
general info:
nice on hit, bad on block. 2bA PO may be more useful than others for punishing moves that you can't punish with AB PO (few and far between though).
BB PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (goes under it), close range KK (interrupted in mid-air); hits BB and max range KK
on block:
- PO A loses to AA, 2A, KK, BB
- PO rush PO A against AA, KK
- PO 8wr against BB
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA, 2A, KK and BB (all interrupted on the ground)
- PO 7_8_9K against 2A
general info:
BB PO is pretty much obsolete thanks to 1BA PO's much better frames going into PO. After BB PO on block, even hover loses to 2A, which means you have to bring in PO 7K.
also, BB PO on hit against crouching opponent does not make opponent stand, so 2A/WS moves interrupts everything. your only option is to PO 7K, which beats everything, or hover, which beats 2A, but loses to WS moves such as WS K (hits taki in mid-air), and WS A (goes under hover).
4A PO
on hit:
- PO A loses to AA and 2A, but beats KK and BB
- PO rush PO A against AA
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interrupted on the ground), KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BB
on block:
- 2A beats everything, as will most WS moves.
general info:
it. really. sucks. it's not exactly fast enough that people can't learn to block it, and on block, the auto-PO shift means free CH WS moves for the opponent. it also gives pretty much the worst frame (dis)advantage going into PO.
i've left out a few PO shifts (namely 9KK PO, BT FC B PO, 44K PO) and 6A PO for the following reasons:
- 6A BT PO and 44K BT PO do not allow PO 8wr or PO rush. also, the only way to attack from BT PO is PO B+K. finally, 44K and 6A on hit have better options; 44K gets stun combos on hit, and 6A BT PO hover/B+K can be interrupted by most BT moves from the opponent (even if a slow BT move whiffs, taki doesn't have anything to hit from PO besides PO B+K, which they can always duck in time). on block it is impossible to do anything without being interrupted (hover options will always be interrupted on the ground).
- 9KK PO on hit knocks down, and the only move that hits grounded is hover B, which will whiff even if the opponent stays on the ground, because the opponent is knocked too far away.
- BT FC B's usage is very situational, and is usually overshadowed by BT A+B.
nonetheless, do experiment with these PO shifts as variations to your gameplay.
Will Edit Later...^_^
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i think maybe i should outline some main goals of getting into PO:
- PO B: safe, forces crouch, mid. i would actually prefer landing PO B on block than PO A/B on hit, because landing PO A deals about 20 dmg, while PO B deals about 32 dmg, while 7 blocked PO Bs lead to CF.
- hover RO: both hover options RO.
- hover B damage: the best mixup damage taki has.
- PO K: + on block for mixups, shakeable stun on hit.
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here's taki's options from PO:
PO A: fast, only PO move that cuts step, safe, gives spin stun into slight + frames. most importantly, the 2nd hit is so fast that opponents can't interrupt with AA/2A/TC moves (they'll get hit if they duck/let go of guard). key point: PO A cuts step weakly to taki's left.
PO B: 7 blocked PO Bs to CF. 32 dmg on normal hit (though nothing guaranteed after).
PO K: it's a linear high that's just slightly faster than PO B. but it gives frames on block, so that's something. mix up with PO B for instant PO mixup. post-PO K on block, the options are endless. don't forget the shakeable stun on hit, even though you'll probably never land it clean outside of PO 8wr PO K.
note: even if i don't mention it in the specific PO shifts, if you think the opponent is going to freeze, you HAVE to do either PO B, PO K or a hover mixup.
hover mixup: both options RO to the front, hover B does 60+ dmg. though my recommendation is to consider hover moves as evasion methods against AA/2A interrupts, rather than a staple mixup, because both options are highly steppable and back-jumpable, especially after 3bK PO (which pushes back).
hover mixup works well as anti-GI because of the mixup damage/soul damage on hover B, but also because even if the opponent didn't GI, you probably still ended up evading a few moves and possible dealing decent actual damage/soul damage.
and instead of repeating this for all PO strings, i'll just say it here: for most situations, hover mixup will jump 2As cleanly, but 2A recovers in time before hover B hits, thus necessitating the need to mix in hover A. the only exception is 33A PO on hit, where hover B will hit before 2A can recover. also, after 33A PO on hit, hover B will hit an opponent's whiffed GI before it can recover.
it also seems that hover B is faster than hover A. try this scenario: do BB PO on block into hover A/B, and have an opponent soph do 3A to interrupt. soph'll be able to block hover B in time but not hover A.
PO rush (PO A): PO rush by itself TCs, which is key against fast AA interrupts in some of the less advantageous PO shifts. but only PO A gives you the speed to punish moves/interrupt strings after ducking. the input for this would be something like PO 66A. interestingly enough, this allows taki to duck a high hit and immediately counter with PO A. it beats all sorts of A strings, such as AA, AB and AK.
PO 8wr: useful if you think the opponent is trying to spam Bs to hit you out of hover/PO, but usually opponents will try interrupting with AA or 2A instead. in any case, i recommend following up with PO B on a successful evade.
note: i don't mention the usage of PO rush or PO 8wr in all of the PO shifts unless it's a necessary counter against interrupts, but it's definitely useful to incorporate into your gameplay if you wish.
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if i had to rank the frame advantage of each PO shift, it'd be something like this:
1BA PO ~ 33A PO >> AB PO ~ BA PO > 3bK PO > mekkimaru PO ~ BB PO >> 4A PO
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now i'll go into a bit of detail on what options taki has going into PO, and how they can be used to counter opponent actions. the intricacies of taki's hover hitbox can be very iffy, depending on the PO shift used and the opponent's counterattack. therefore i'll be documenting how hover b works against taki's own AA, KK, 2A and BB.
1BA PO
on hit:
- PO A/PO B is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits BB and max range AA; AA at close range or KK at any range will go under it
on block:
- PO A is uninterruptible, not even by AAs or 2As
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits BB and max range AA, but AA at close range, or KK at any range will go under it
general info:
whenever possible, 1BA PO should be used to punish everything after blocking/baiting a whiff/stepping, just so you can lead to PO B. 1B looks to be just 1~2 frames slower than taki's B.
do take note that if the first hit of 1BA connects with a crouching opponent, the 2nd hit will automatically connect as NC regardless. but if the first hit is blocked, the opponent is free to duck the second hit, and gets free WS moves (taki's WS A guaranteed at least). any subsequent PO evasion methods will be too slow and be hit out of. 1B done by itself is also unsafe. therefore you HAVE to be careful on block, and possibly add in stuff like 1B step 33B, 1B step 1BA, 1BA 22A (22A has early step and TC frames), 1B GI (the GI has to be delayed because iWS moves are usally slow from human input) and others.
33A PO
on hit:
- PO A/PO B is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can't recover in time)
- hover B hits 2A and BB, loses to AA and KK (both go under it)
on block:
- PO A trades hits with AA, loses to 2A but beats KK and BB
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA, BB (both interrupted in mid-air) and KK (goes under it)
general info:
33A is notable for being the only PO shift that has hover B hit 2A before the opponent can block. and yet on block, PO A doesn't beat AA. however, 33A's followup B hits (only AA-punishable) make interrupting harder for the opponent, and it's useful for cutting step.
AB PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (goes under it) and KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BB
on block:
- PO A loses to AA and 2A, but beats KK and BB
- PO rush PO A against AA
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interupted on the ground), KK (interrupted in mid-air) and BB (goes under it)
general info:
AB PO should really only be used against opponents without fast AAs. either that or if you think you can beat out the opponent's incoming attack, or if you blocked/stepped a move that you can't punish with 1BA. but taki's A speed means you can't ignore this PO shift. if you want to go for damage, AB 4A+B A (NC) is an option.
BA PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover loses to KK (goes under it), but hits AA, BB
on block:
- PO A loses to AA and 2A, but beats KK and BB
- PO rush PO A against AA
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interrupted on the ground), KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BB
general info:
overshadowed by 1BA, in terms of frames into PO. but take note that 1B is unsafe and B isn't.
also, be aware that BA PO on hit against crouching opponent does not make opponent stand, so the opponent will crouch under the second A hit for free 2A/WS moves.
3bK PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible (but do note that because of 3bK's crazy pushback, PO A may whiff)
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits AA, KK and BB
on block:
- PO A loses to AA, KK and 2A, but beats BB
- PO rush A against AA and KK
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interrupted on the ground) and KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BBs
general info:
3bK pushes back too far for my liking, but it has its uses as a double mid into a relatively fast PO shift. don't whore the hover moves because the pushback makes them even more easily stepped/back-jumped. PO A also whiffs occasionally due to the pushback. on another note, 3bK is really useful on wall splat due to its speed and range. wall splat 3bK PO B does decent damage (44B 3bK PO B does 76 dmg).
mekkimaru PO (2bA, WS AA, 6KA, bomb cancel A, etc)
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B hits AA and BB, but loses to KK (interrupted in mid-air)
on block:
- PO A loses to AA, 2A, KK, BB
- PO rush PO A against AA, KK
- PO 8wr against BB
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA, 2A, KK, BB (all interrupted on the ground)
- PO 7_8_9K against 2A
general info:
nice on hit, bad on block. 2bA PO may be more useful than others for punishing moves that you can't punish with AB PO (few and far between though).
BB PO
on hit:
- PO A is uninterruptible
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (goes under it), close range KK (interrupted in mid-air); hits BB and max range KK
on block:
- PO A loses to AA, 2A, KK, BB
- PO rush PO A against AA, KK
- PO 8wr against BB
- hover mixup against GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA, 2A, KK and BB (all interrupted on the ground)
- PO 7_8_9K against 2A
general info:
BB PO is pretty much obsolete thanks to 1BA PO's much better frames going into PO. After BB PO on block, even hover loses to 2A, which means you have to bring in PO 7K.
also, BB PO on hit against crouching opponent does not make opponent stand, so 2A/WS moves interrupts everything. your only option is to PO 7K, which beats everything, or hover, which beats 2A, but loses to WS moves such as WS K (hits taki in mid-air), and WS A (goes under hover).
4A PO
on hit:
- PO A loses to AA and 2A, but beats KK and BB
- PO rush PO A against AA
- hover mixup against 2A/GI (opponent can recover in time)
- hover B loses to AA (interrupted on the ground), KK (interrupted in mid-air), but hits BB
on block:
- 2A beats everything, as will most WS moves.
general info:
it. really. sucks. it's not exactly fast enough that people can't learn to block it, and on block, the auto-PO shift means free CH WS moves for the opponent. it also gives pretty much the worst frame (dis)advantage going into PO.
i've left out a few PO shifts (namely 9KK PO, BT FC B PO, 44K PO) and 6A PO for the following reasons:
- 6A BT PO and 44K BT PO do not allow PO 8wr or PO rush. also, the only way to attack from BT PO is PO B+K. finally, 44K and 6A on hit have better options; 44K gets stun combos on hit, and 6A BT PO hover/B+K can be interrupted by most BT moves from the opponent (even if a slow BT move whiffs, taki doesn't have anything to hit from PO besides PO B+K, which they can always duck in time). on block it is impossible to do anything without being interrupted (hover options will always be interrupted on the ground).
- 9KK PO on hit knocks down, and the only move that hits grounded is hover B, which will whiff even if the opponent stays on the ground, because the opponent is knocked too far away.
- BT FC B's usage is very situational, and is usually overshadowed by BT A+B.
nonetheless, do experiment with these PO shifts as variations to your gameplay.
Will Edit Later...^_^
