SC3 The Klessirpemdo etymology investigation

ZionOAS

[10] Knight
I posted this back in 2019 in a general discussion. Since then it has still plagued me to understand what this word means. I’ve only started to dive into this early this morning, and would ask if anyone else interested in the task join in. If you don’t even know why this name is relevant to Soul Calibur it was introduced in Soul Calibur 3. The Klessirpemdo was a group of warriors from one of the three powers at war, Dalkia. Something I have found consistent between the two is a Germanic origin. Dalk is described to be “pinned, or bracelet.” The Dalkia flag are four swords connected together like a “Z” with two flipped swords side by side. Pinning them together and linking to the other two forming a bracelet. Kless is a German surname that means “conquering.” But it’s here that I am having difficulties breaking down the word any further. If I were to take out “ir” and “pemdo” pemdo doesn’t have any etymology results but I’m often redirected to “pendo.” Yet “ir” is another Germanic root for “you,” I also saw “copper” which would coincide with the yellow banner of Dalkia. “To go” is also a meaning. I’m not sure if the placement is correct if “Klessir” was to mean “to go conquer” rather what I think is more likely “Conquering copper.” Pemdo really meaning Pendo? I don’t have the idea to know if this is correct? But splitting “pem” and “do.” I find that Pem could mean “Pembrook” a whelsh name that means “headland” and “do” can be implied to preform an action. Such as “Conquering Copperland destroyers.” I not displeased with the meaning but if anyone may have their own interpretation or even information to collaborate with mine please share.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I’ve never really pondered as to what it might mean, and I’m not really sure if they did either. I didn’t think there was any meaning in any of the Chronicles vocabulary, honestly, between Maletta, Grandall, Halteese, Arthias (okay maybe that one’s too obvious a King Arthur reference), but my general feeling is that they just went with stuff that sounded cool and didn’t put a whole lot of thought into it. So it’s a little surprising that there’s any meaning or roots to be found at all, I think so anyway. Klessirpemdo was just, to me, some cool word that Luna and her friends came up with when they were kids, and kept using it when they became adults.
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
I’ve never really pondered as to what it might mean, and I’m not really sure if they did either. I didn’t think there was any meaning in any of the Chronicles vocabulary, honestly, between Maletta, Grandall, Halteese, Arthias (okay maybe that one’s too obvious a King Arthur reference), but my general feeling is that they just went with stuff that sounded cool and didn’t put a whole lot of thought into it. So it’s a little surprising that there’s any meaning or roots to be found at all, I think so anyway. Klessirpemdo was just, to me, some cool word that Luna and her friends came up with when they were kids, and kept using it when they became adults.
Agreed. There are some incidental vague similarities to actual toponyms here and there, but the phonemics of these words have all the hallmarks of what might, in linguistics terms, be classified as folk toponmy: that is is to say, people making up fantasy names without clear precedents in real languages. Some pass muster but others are tin-eared, and some seem to be awkwardly constructed from multiple false cogante morphemes from two very distinct language groups, of which 'Klessirpemdo' is a premiere example, composed of the very germanic-language-suggestive 'klessir', and the very romance-language-esque 'pemdo'. I mean, they aren't actual cognates as far as I know, but just those particular phonemes in those combinations are just suggestive of different language genealogies. But then, who knows when these names got made? I'm going to guess during localization.

But in any event, I suppose the question I am more curious about is if it is set in 1) it's own little alternative history parallel to that of the main franchise, 2) the same continuity, but a different age, or 3) its own distinct narrative world. Someone remind me: does the map definitively answer the question at least with regard to 1/2 vs. 3?
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
Honestly, kinda but not really? It’s said to be a “great continent” and it looks like this:



I would really just consider it to be in-canon fiction, meaning a myth or legend in a fantasy world that there’s be books about in the SoulCaliburverse. So it could be 3, but it’s not certain one way or the other.
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
Honestly, kinda but not really? It’s said to be a “great continent” and it looks like this:



I would really just consider it to be in-canon fiction, meaning a myth or legend in a fantasy world that there’s be books about in the SoulCaliburverse. So it could be 3, but it’s not certain one way or the other.
Well, that would definitely qualify as a sub-type of possibility #3 (or a combination of 2 & 3, I suppose, depending on how you look at it), but that sounds a little too convoluted and involved to assume it is the case, as opposed to just your garden variety independent narrative. Unless of course there is something in the story itself that suggests as much: I really wouldn't remember, although I vaguely recall the outline of the story and enjoying the mode as a gameplay/mechanical matter (not something I can say for most of the focused single-player faire in series since).

Of course, the plot device you describe is not unheard of in fantasy fiction: as I understand it, the setting (Ivalice, I think?) of Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII exists inside a story created in the "real" world of Final Fantasy Tactics! So it's not like it can't happen, but the way you worded it there leaves it ambiguous whether your notion is just something you think would be a nice twist, or if it is something suggested in the narrative somehow? Because without some evidence it seems to me like the "vanilla" versions of the other three general categories are the best default assumption. Of course, that would presume that either of us could appeal to the idea that there was any thinking or planning going on with regard to the continuity here, which of course is....let's just say, not strictly speaking the most likely scenario! :D
 

TresDias

[10] Knight
Of course, the plot device you describe is not unheard of in fantasy fiction: as I understand it, the setting (Ivalice, I think?) of Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII exists inside a story created in the "real" world of Final Fantasy Tactics!
More accurately, "Ivalice" has, in different eras of history, variously been the name of a large geographic region, a single country, and a small town in the "real world" that FFXII, FFTactics, FFTactics Advance, FFTactics Advance 2, and Vagrant Story are set in. There was also another Ivalice -- a country in a "House of M"-esque reality created through the interplay of a magical grimoire and the imagination of a boy from the town of St. Ivalice -- featured prominently in Tactics Advance.
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
More accurately, "Ivalice" has, in different eras of history, variously been the name of a large geographic region, a single country, and a small town in the "real world" that FFXII, FFTactics, FFTactics Advance, FFTactics Advance 2, and Vagrant Story are set in. There was also another Ivalice -- a country in a "House of M"-esque reality created through the interplay of a magical grimoire and the imagination of a boy from the town of St. Ivalice -- featured prominently in Tactics Advance.
Ahhh, I had it beackwards: I thought that Tactics Advance was set in the "real world" and established that the rest of the games took place inside story-within-the-story and/or meta reality and/or magical reality dependent on the "real world" of the narrative, a la Neverending Story. But I only ever played Tactics and XII, of that list of games, and of course they don't engage with this topic at all (that I recall); I only knew about the nesting doll realities because this was mentioned in passing in a retrospective overview of the FF franchise that I watched about ten years back--but apparently I got the details mixed up.

Actually, just rewatching a few minutes of it now, it seems ambiguous: mightn't it still be possible that all of the other Ivalices are places/entities at various parts in the history of the world created with the grimoire in the first FFT Adance? After-all, this is apparently where we first see the various races who then go on to persist in Final Fantasy XII. But I suppose it's just as possible that it works the other way around and that the kids populated their fantasy world with the same species that exist (or existed at some point) in their own real world, or in its history. Is there enough context in the games which i did not play to settle this question definitively?

Edit: Oh, I should have watched that video to it's conclusion: it touches upon these issues in detail and presents several interpretations, one of which is clearly where I got the notion that I did.
 
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ZionOAS

[10] Knight
Lol 😂 Final Fantasy really just took over the topic. At the present moment I'm bored and I want to produce a fan fiction for my characters. In a Soul Chronicle fashion, I'll combine the stories of the main continuity, Conduit, Cadet and Weapon master. So I will be improvising scenes, which is why I trying to not make a hasty mistake of mistranslating a word such as the Klessirpemdo. But effectively this story won't be Canon but I would like it to be as canon-adjacent as possible.
 

TresDias

[10] Knight
Ahhh, I had it beackwards: I thought that Tactics Advance was set in the "real world" and established that the rest of the games took place inside story-within-the-story and/or meta reality and/or magical reality dependent on the "real world" of the narrative, a la Neverending Story. But I only ever played Tactics and XII, of that list of games, and of course they don't engage with this topic at all (that I recall); I only knew about the nesting doll realities because this was mentioned in passing in a retrospective overview of the FF franchise that I watched about ten years back--but apparently I got the details mixed up.

Actually, just rewatching a few minutes of it now, it seems ambiguous: mightn't it still be possible that all of the other Ivalices are places/entities at various parts in the history of the world created with the grimoire in the first FFT Adance? After-all, this is apparently where we first see the various races who then go on to persist in Final Fantasy XII. But I suppose it's just as possible that it works the other way around and that the kids populated their fantasy world with the same species that exist (or existed at some point) in their own real world, or in its history. Is there enough context in the games which i did not play to settle this question definitively?

Edit: Oh, I should have watched that video to it's conclusion: it touches upon these issues in detail and presents several interpretations, one of which is clearly where I got the notion that I did.
It's quite the interesting nesting doll, to be sure. A series of games called "Final Fantasy" are established to exist in the present-day "real world" of FFTA -- but it's also clear that this can't be our world or our FF games: the races that FFTA introduced to the real-life FF series for us were already familiar to the main character, Marche, but moogles of all creatures weren't; and the notion of Ivalice as a country rather than a town was likewise unknown to him.

Fortunately, we've also had interviews and such to emphasize clarity:

For more details, please read our short interview with the game's Executive Producer Akitoshi Kawazu, Director Yuichi Murasawa, and Square Enix PR staff Charlie Sinhaseni:

GamesRadar: The Ivalice Alliance series has several titles now, such as FFXII and FFTA2. The world of Ivalice is somewhat different between them. Can you talk about the different titles and how the world of Ivalice is portrayed between them?

Akitoshi Kawazu: The first title related to Ivalice was Final Fantasy Tactics. After that, we've released some titles related to Ivalice but some of them were related to Ivalice but it was a fantasy of the characters. Some Ivalice [games] were based on the real Ivalice. This time, FFTA2, it's related to the real Ivalice, not fantasized.

It's in chronological order. There's basically a real-world Ivalice and there's a parallel-world Ivalice. There's an imaginary Ivalice and an Ivalice that follows chronological order. FFTA2 is, as mentioned, is Ivalice that's followed by chronological order.

This weekend at the Square Enix Party 2007 public event in Tokyo, we had the opportunity to sit in a quiet room and toss a few questions towards the game's director, Yuichi Murasawa.

Tactics A2 occurs in Ivalice, like Final Fantasy XII, so I'm wondering will the occurrences in Final Fantasy XII have any impact on A2?

Murasawa
Tactics A2 is a sequel to Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and there is a kind of link between FFXII and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. In this timeline, the events are very close to each other. Chronologically speaking, however, FFTA2 takes place after FFXII.