Siegfried Combo and Tech Trap Discussion

I tested some wall combos etc.
Ill list the best meterless option after any wall hit in terms of dmg:
22/88A w!, 3(B)
6B w!, 66K
66A w!, 33/99B
3(B)(low wall splat), SCH B
3(B)(high wall splat), cancel into ws (B)
ws (B)(low wall splat), SCH B
ws (B)(high wall splat), cancel into ws (B)
(A), SSH K w!, 3(B)
SBH K, 33(B)
SRSH A, 3(B)
66A+B, 1K
66B, 2B
3A w!, 3(B)
3aA w!, 3(B)
11/77K w!, ws (B)
ch 6K w!, ws (B)
ch 66K w!, 3(B)
ch 6A w!, 33/99(B)
ch 9K w!, ws (B)
ch 1AA w!, 1K
BBK... come on, you know it will never happen. ws (B) if it does
44/11/77A, ws (B)

The priority pretty much is, ws (B)>3(B)>66K>3A

The combos go like:
if 3(B)/ws (B) 1st wall hit and low splat, then SCH B, A+B else
if 3(B)/ws (B) 1st wall hit and high splat, then cancel into ws (B) and if its a wall hit again then SCH B, A+B, else just SCH B or
if 3(B)/ws (B) 2st wall hit, then SCH B, A+B

ex. 22/88A, 3(B), SCH B, A+B - 100dmg
highest dmg no meter is: 44/11/77A, ws (B), cancel into ws (B), SCH B, A+B - 119 dmg
note: if the 3(B) get a wall hit then the SCH B must be input when the opponent is close to the ground so it makes that "stun" for the A+B to connect.

Also i found an old school (sc3) combo: 44/11/77A, ws (B), SCH B for 92dmg

22/88A is easily my favourite new move :P

edit: forgot some more. nightblade gave me an idea for a situational ringout combo, goes like:
66k(A+B+K), 2B+K, SCH kA+B+K, 3A/agA. Will ringout to Sieg's left and almost back for 1 bar. Situational enough? :P
 
This is pretty random and not incredibly useful as far as I can see at this point, but:

22_88kA{A} SSH K does combo if you're not at tip range. Might be a 'safe' transition if you ever fuck up your 22_88k{A} SCH combo. The K still wallsplats/rings out.

Also interesting info: B4 breaks guard in 6 regardless of the speed at which you perform it at. It's timing independent.
 
Yeah i saw it writen somewhere in the forum before, but its really too inconsistent ;s
22/88kA lost alot of value tbh, just because of the silly step
 
Spidey said:
edit: forgot some more. nightblade gave me an idea for a situational ringout combo, goes like:
66k(A+B+K), 2B+K, SCH kA+B+K, 3A/agA. Will ringout to Sieg's left and almost back for 1 bar. Situational enough? :P
Click to expand...
I assume you meant SBH kA+B+K?

lol yea that does look hella situational. Whatever, though. The more you know!

As for 22_88kA{A} SSH K, it's not inconsistent at all if you're against a wall or at a ring edge, which is when I'd be fishing for it. You just need to be mindful of your K's spacing. People don't seem to get how dangerous step is in this game although improved. Lack of step G and no (discovered) way to safely step means set-ups like this are really easy to get, since people are always scurrying to get away from the wall/ring edge.

Holy shit guys, okay SOMEONE tell me I'm wrong with this. So I was fucking around with all stuns to try and get similar results from 66k BE, but I forgot about one. SCH B. I dunno about you guys but I land this shit on people all the time. So I tried waiting a little bit to do the followup 3B.

It... tech traps to the right? AND juggles them for a possible SCH kA+B+K iaGA 119 dmg combo? Someone tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm testing incorrectly, please. brb, blowing my brains out.
 
No i actually meant 66k(A+B+K), 2B+K, SCH kA+B+K, 3A/agA where you do a roulette to your right and then SCH kA+B+K :P

If you got your opp at wall/edge ofc yeah, but otherwise i have no hope of landing it. Thats where (A), SSH K comes in :P
Also ours have alot more consistency than NM's for some reason oO

edit: close enough. I tested that before, but instead of a delayed 3B i was doing 33B. Catches right tech, but not left tech.
 
In making a quick vid to explain the 3b trap just now, I accidentally discovered you can also go for a free ground throw mix-up after SCH B, and it tech traps to both sides! This shit is pretty fun. :D
 

does not work on left tech. I thought it did for a sec, but definitely does not. Found something interesting while filming for it, though.

You can get a ground throw attempt, Astaroth style, after SCH B. If you land either grab early on, you get the full "Get up!" animation and +however many frames you get from that. If you wait just an instant and go for either grab, you will get the full flip animation. Nothing is guaranteed (but a ringout) from a successful A throw. B throw you can land BT 1K just as the opponent lands for a consistent 95 damage total. Pretty nifty!

zomg open the video thread before I get banned for spamming!
 
The only negative in that is that we will lose dmg if they stay down, so will probably just stay with the 3B lol
 
Nah man, think deeper. The mix up is worth it in the end. We lose a potential 10 or so damage, but we get a mix-up. In getting said mix-up, people will want to stay down, just like you said. This is our goal! Once they start making the decision to stay down in certain situations, we can take advantage of that and do things like 22_88BB for insane extra damage. The idea isn't to maximize combo damage, it's to maximize situations where you are left at advantageous positions, and your opponent is at disadvantageous ones. This will wear down on an opponent's psyche, and decision-making will become more cloudy and difficult for them if you show them you have a solution for each of their options in any given situation. That's how you demonstrate superiority in any match. Tournaments aren't won with combos alone. Mix-up is key.

But, I suppose to each their own.
 
Mixups are key yes, but cant u see for your own that no one will get hit by a 22BB? :P The movement gives away the setup, we may as well do a b4 (fastest version) cause it has more chances to land.
As soon as the opponent knows not to tech in order to avoid the flapjack the will try to normal stand and block low to hope for an execution error (doing the flapjack too slow) so they can block and punish and thats where the actual mixup can happen (with ws B :P).

Dunno i just seriously dont trust in 22BB :P
 
Hah, 22_88BB was just an example. I know nobody is going to get hit by such a ridiculously slow move. That's why I said things like that. If you want to attempt B4 if you're going for guard break or whatever, go for it. You get my point, though. The point is to force them to make a choice, instead of wash, rinse, repeat combos that everybody knows. Try something unconventional, and get people freaking out at why they got hit by such a silly mix-up.

Besides, SCH B leaves them head-first. It feels like this wake-up option of ground throw was meant for this move. If they don't tech, you get the normal 'Get up!' animation where they're standing and you're at +frames. If they do, you get positional advantage/damage mix-up. It's pretty win/win. The worse thing that can happen is they break the ground throw, and you're back to neutral.
 
Yeah i know what you are talking about :P
About 22BB, the actual move is fast tbh (i26) its the step that really kills any potential it has ;/
From this particular case you are getting 22 dmg from A and 44 dmg from B flapjack and pretty much everyone should break with B. Still needs a tech and assuming they break with B you get only 2 extra dmg compared to the 3B (20 dmg) and thats why im hesitant :P

ROFL screw everything, just tested sth i should have some hours ago lol. SCH B, ws B catch BOTH sides if done will normal speed not even instant (instant will actually miss). So i guess the flapjack/ws B mixup could be the way to go lol.
 
Nightblade said:
Besides, SCH B leaves them head-first. It feels like this wake-up option of ground throw was meant for this move. If they don't tech, you get the normal 'Get up!' animation where they're standing and you're at +frames. If they do, you get positional advantage/damage mix-up. It's pretty win/win. The worse thing that can happen is they break the ground throw, and you're back to neutral.
Click to expand...

Even then, its still both a positioning and frame advantage for Siegfried. Good find, I'll keep it in mind.
 
More findz this time about "step G". You can make it work if instead of step G you do step aG/bG/kG lolz. Harder to execute but its definitelly there ^^
 
Spidey said:
More findz this time about "step G". You can make it work if instead of step G you do step aG/bG/kG lolz. Harder to execute but its definitelly there ^^
Click to expand...
I heard a rumor that you could do like step 6G as well, but this one seems more consistent. Good shit.
 
Yeah 4G and 6G seem to work aswell. kG seems very easy for me as i play with stick.
btw did check what i wrote about SCH B, ws B? any feedback?
 
Spidey said:
Yeah 4G and 6G seem to work aswell. kG seems very easy for me as i play with stick.
btw did check what i wrote about SCH B, ws B? any feedback?
Click to expand...
I just finished testing it. It requires a little bit of timing, but this definitely works. Great find!
 
That is an interesting find... And even if they don't tech when you do ws B, it's possible they could get up and attack and eat another SCH B and reset the situation. If they get up and block you are +2. Good stuff! Definitely going to see how that plays out in match play.

- I.C.E.
 
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