Siegfried groundhit / oki frames discussion study

sdnkorento

[08] Mercenary
Last time it took like one month to publish the "okizeme frames" but this time, I'm going to pull this quickly since I still have some interest in the game. Lets make Manfried better together!

Groundhit is advantage you have when you hit DOWNED opponent with particular move. Airhit advantage stands for advantage you get when you hit midair opponent with particular move.

Please note that these aren't the real frames, having +22 doesn't mean that you can score move of i21. It only means that opponent's i35 move will trade with your i13 kick. I won't take time to explain this, I might add instructions later, I just want to publish some numbers.


Groundhits:

+0: Flapjack roll
+12: 22B
+14: 1K / 22BB
+22: b4
+27: 3(B) / 33(B)
+31: SCH B
+40: 44(B)

Airhits:

+25: SCH B / agA (estimate)


Other type of advantages:

+13: Both throws



Random stuff:

i20: SCH -> SBH
i26: SBH -> SRSH

i20: B+K
i22: 2B+K


Discussion:

Flapjacking on the ground is still useless. I have to check the pick up though

22B-series gives slight advantage but pushes opponent a bit

3B / 33B gives insane advantage but pushes opponent very far. Good near corners or walls though

1K and throws are bit nerfed. They used to give +16, now a little less. I still encourage people to 1K downed opponent, if they want to play sleepy.

b4, nice advantage and keeps opponent somewhat close unlike 3(B). Used to be +27 though

44(B) is good as always. If you manage to hit with this, you can do whatever you want. Force them up with your SBH B and mix-up by entering into SRSH. Mix-up is uninterruptable as transition takes 26 frames leaving you +14 advantage. Hitting with this is another story though :D

SCH B's groundhit might be one of the best tool in Sieg's arsenal. If it hits, you're on huge advatange. On block, it's decent. Whiffing might be problem though.

agA airhit is very hard to figure out. You can tech it, but the advantage is still around +25, even more if agA is performed fast (opponent gets hit higher)


Final words

1A hits rarely the downed. You must aim the legs or something. 2A and 22ka:2A don't hit the ground at all!

All in all, quite a nerf in the Manfried's ground game... There are still many moves to cover, stay tuned
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
when the hell did this get locked? andy why? oh well...thanks sdnkorento, i'll be continuing from here. thanks for your efforts, it was a good start.
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
*please note that on the frame guard activates, the opponent is capable of ducking. if a move is labelled "safe frames" they are always capable of ducking. also note that there are no tech traps for highs, only *duckable* forced blocks

Horizontal attack KND frames:

AAB: +18 on hit(safe frames)
AA{B}: +35(safe past about frame 16.)
iagA: +25 on hit(safe frames)
iag{A}: +20 on hit(safe frames)
CH 6A: +17 on hit(safe frames)
3A: +53 on hit(opponent can block after roughly 40 frames, opponent can tech after approximately 30 frames)
3aA: +52 on hit(opponent can block after roughly 36 frames(40 frames if they tech) opponent can tech after approximately 30 frames)
1AA: approximately +40 on hit(guard activates after 25 frames)
4A: +26(safe frames)
4{A}: +36(safe frames) if they dont tech, +36(safe past frame 19?) if they tech forwards, +42(safe past frame 19?) if they tech another direction.
WR AA: aproximately +31(safe frames)
8_9A: +13(safe frames)
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
Vertical Attack KND frames:

BBA: +27
BB{A}: +27
BBK: +30(safe frames)
6B: +25(safe frames)
3B: less than +13
3{B}: +32(safe past frame 16?)
1B: +18(safe frames)
CH 4B: +30
236B: approxximately +9
WR B: less than +13
WR {B}: +32*(safe past frame 16? excluding Astaroth, Aeon, Zwei, Algol)
8_9B: +23(safe frames)
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
Kick Attack KND frames:

6K: +38(safe past i15, only 1K connects, can tech on i15)
3KK: +41 if they tech, +64-65 if they don't(guard activates on frame 26, they can also tech on frame 20)
2KKKKK: +24
7_8_9K: +28 (guard activates on frame 17, can tech on frame 12)
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
Simultaneous press KND frames:

2A+B: +16 if they tech, +24 if they dont(safe frames)
2{A+B}: + 35 if they tech, +44 if they dont tech(safe past frame 16?)
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
Throw KND frames:

A+G: +16(safe frames)
B+G: +16(safe frames)
right side: +18(safe frames)
left side: 18(safe frames)
back: +18(safe frames)
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
8wayrun Move KND frames:

33_66_99A: +42(tech activates just past frame 18, guard activates on frame 31)
22_88A: +28(safe frames)
11_44_77A: +64-65(tech activates on about frame 35)(safe past frame 38?)
11_44_77{A}: +55-56(tech activates on about frame 35)(safe past frame 38?)
66B: +36if they tech, +45 if they dont(safe frames)
33_99B: less than +13
33_99{B}: +32(safe past frame 16?)
CH 11_77B: +52(ukemi activates on frame 30, guard activates on frame 42)
CH 11_77{B}: +63(ukemi activates on frame 30, guard activates on frame 42)
44B: +32(safe frames past frame 15)
44{B}: +56(safe past frame 40)
CH 33_66_99K: +32-33 if they tech, +36 if they dont(safe frames)
CH 22_88KK: +27(safe frames)
22_88KAAB: +22 if they tech, +24 if they dont.
CH 22_88KA2A: +53 if they tech, over +66 if they dont.(safe frames after frame 25?)
22_88KA2AA: +30 if they tech, +43 if they dont(safe frames)
CH 22_88Ka2A: +40(safe past frame 26?)
22_88Ka2AA: +36 if they tech, +48 if they dont.(ukemi activates on frame 16, safe past frame 24)
22_88kAAB: +22 if they tech, +24 if they dont.
CH 22_88kA2A: +53 if they tech, over +66 if they dont.(safe frames after frame 25?)
22_88kA2AA: +30 if they tech, +43 if they dont(safe frames)
CH 22_88ka:2A: +40)safe past frame 26?)
22_88ka:2AA: +36 if they tech, +48 if they dont(ukemi activates on frame 16, safe past frame 24)
11_77K: +32(ukemi activates on frame 18, safe frames if they dont tech)
44K: +18-19(safe frames)
66A+B: +32(ukemi activates on frame 15? safe past frame 17)