Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

Umbra4life said:
DLC is made to make money. Li Long wouldn't sell nearly as well as a well-known character like Hilde. Namco and PS know that.
Click to expand...
Seriously we don’t know if these characters are single releases. It wouldn’t make money, it wouldn’t make sense from a release stand point either to release them singularly. Two or three together. And then comes a reveal of a guest and CaS bundles. Those are just something that don’t need to be in the in the data. So if they want to bring back old classics and then a new guest they could. It’s fulfilling the roster and creating variety even though it’s multiple weapon styles of the same thing. So all your sword and shields don’t use Sophitia style.

Now I’m done playing devil’s advocate. Because I would like variety of different weapon choices over variations sooner than later. Also would like a stronger story impact. So Hilde, Algol, Hwang, Lizardman. They can fill in many blanks to the stories.
 
AMillionHP said:
That isnt going to sell. You're kidding yourself if you think a sizable amount of people will care about the original roster coming back.
Click to expand...

It's how they sell it. IMO if they sell all season 2 characters together for around £20 that would be a wise move. We shall see as this is Bamco we're taking about.
 
sytus said:
It's how they sell it. IMO if they sell all season 2 characters together for around £20 that would be a wise move. We shall see as this is Bamco we're taking about.
Click to expand...
Now way the second season pass will be cheaper from the first.
 
@ZionOAS Correction, SoulCalibur VI covers from the end of SoulBlade to the beginning of SoulCalibur II. SoulCalibur III hasn’t been touched upon, aside from the inclusion of Zasalamel and Tira (and Amy and likely Setsuka later). But their stories don’t contradict the original timeline, either. Zasalamel is an immortal time lord and Tira was a trained assassin since she was nine years old.

@Ukkesh Depending on how you are defining “appear”, Hwang and Li Long have appeared in SoulCalibur IV (Broken Destiny) and SoulCalibur V as opponents in Quick Battle mode. CaS, yes, but they haven’t been completely forgotten. Other minor characters appeared as CaS in SoulCalibur IV story mode and were just as canon, so while Quick Battle isn’t really a story mode, that have still made appearances, despite not having unique move sets since SoulCalibur III. And SoulCalibur III (particularly Arcade Edition) proved that Hwang/Yun-seong and Li Long/Maxi can coexist in the same game and feel quite different from one another in the same way other “clones” do. It was still a mistake to this day to scrap Hwang and Li Long and only keep Amy moving into SoulCalibur IV.

@AMillionHP And Cassandra and Amy aren’t “clones”/duplicated weapons? If Setsuka and Hilde were in the season one pass, then there would be a point to proritizing uniqueness, but if the premiere DLC is half not that, then that already sets an expectation of their aims. Recreating the SoulCalibur III roster fits the narrative and the goal of SoulCalibur VI, which was to roll back and retell the tale, and to do that, you need all the original players. Which is why I’m hoping that Cassandra and Amy do indeed have Soul Chronicle stories, because if they do just bring back all these classic folks without backstory, it does come across as a little pointless and incomplete. If Cassandra and Amy don’t get stories, then I doubt the season two folks will, either.

As a complete and total aside, not that she fits “yell” in any capacity, really, but another character that isn’t really being discussed is Salia. She was featured in Libra of Soul, having a unique portrait / hair style that is unobtainable, and was also featured in Broken Destiny as a Quick Battle opponent. There was a leak that included her, too, so unless it was just made up, which is possible, then she might could be in the running too. Because she was seen but wasn’t seen fighting, much like Hwang and Edge Master, so she has a certain allure. Compare Arthur and Han-myeong, who just used Mitsurugi’s style.
 
I just had another troubling thought, what of all of these are not even legit, new movesets? Some of them could be pallet swap / bonus characters. It is afterall a large jump in character count from the first season and many of them are clones. We might be getting a bit ahead of ourselves in assuming these are all characters.
 
AMillionHP said:
I just had another troubling thought, what of all of these are not even legit, new movesets? Some of them could be pallet swap / bonus characters. It is afterall a large jump in character count from the first season...
Click to expand...
Look at Tekken 7 DLCs. First season was 2 characters + pre-order bonus Eliza. Season 2 is 6 characters.
 
Klimat said:
Look at Tekken 7 DLCs. First season was 2 characters + pre-order bonus Eliza. Season 2 is 6 characters.
Click to expand...

I know and i originally speculated 6 characters by copying Tekken's model well before the data mined leak surfaced.

Then again...
This is a lot of clones.
Many of them are unpopular relatively speaking.
Season 2 hasnt even been announced or teased yet.
Lets not pretend there havent been any disappointing aspects to the game.
This isnt Tekken.

Just saying it might not be a bad idea to keep expectations in check. Some of us here seem convinced their top priority is bringing back every old character. Ok, maybe their version of accomplishing that task could be a lot different than what you expect.
 
Himiteshu said:
Don't forget Cassandra and LIZARDMAN, not AEON!!! Fuck, he was named AEON only in one game
Click to expand...
Cassandra and Amy are Season 1, we were talking about Season 2 specifically. Also I said Aeon to emphasise I want/expect his SC5 moveset with two axes and not yet another sword and shield character.
 
Himiteshu said:
Don't forget Cassandra and LIZARDMAN, not AEON!!! Fuck, he was named AEON only in one game
Click to expand...
His name was always Aeon, however. They just changed it in SoulCalibur V to indicate the difference in move set. I would actually be fine with a sword and shield Lizardman whose name was Aeon, since it’s a fine name, more personal. The only time it wasn’t Aeon was SoulCalibur II, since they were generic Lizardmen.

But Cassandra and Amy are practically confirmed for season one, no one is forgetting Cassandra. We’re just speculating season two.

AMillionHP said:
I just had another troubling thought, what of all of these are not even legit, new movesets? Some of them could be pallet swap / bonus characters. It is afterall a large jump in character count from the first season and many of them are clones. We might be getting a bit ahead of ourselves in assuming these are all characters.
Click to expand...
But no, they’ve demonstrated with Mi-na that they’re more than capable of making unique move sets with the “same weapon”. Cassandra and Amy will probably solidify this point even further. Hwang and Li Long in SoulCalibur III did this, too.

The only one I’m really concerned about is Rock, since Astaroth literally assimilated a ton of his move set. Unless they’re giving Rock an all new move set, of course... I could also see them giving him the dual axes, since Aeon is likely going to be sword and shield once more. Aeon and Lizardman were both placed in the poll and both did “well” (well enough to be consider along with everyone else), so it could be a compromise to make both fan groups happy. Just keep the angel wings and fire breathing away, and flesh out the axes with more Native American flair.
 
AMillionHP said:
Ok maybe you dont. I know i've seen many on this site call Rock, Aeon, Yun and Hwang a clone.
Click to expand...
Lizardman was a clone, Aeon in my mind was not. Yun and Hwand are clones of each other, so as long as we only get one, we are fine. I think the days dao sword movesets were clones of Xianghua are long gone. Rock is the biggest problem in my eyes, but I believe he can be reasonably improved on if needed. Li Long would have been the worst, but I don't believe for a second in his return.
 
Hwang and Yun-seong have never been clones, that’s just factually inaccurate. Hwang was a bit of a Mitsurugi clone and then he and Xianghua were quite cloneish in SoulCalibur I, but Yun-seong was built fresh from the ground up. Assassin was Hwang, keeping some of the Xianghuaisms but still a bit differentiated, and differentiated even further in SoulCalibur III to be totally separate from Xianghua. By SoulCalibur III, they were all separate, but aside from being the same weapon type, Yun-seong was always very different than Hwang.

And Li Long was very different than Maxi in SoulCalibur III as well, so continuing that style would be a non-issue and not a clone either. They play completely different from one another. There would be no issues bringing that dual nunchaku style back. The only real “clone” we would end up with would be Rock, but they might find a way, like I mentioned above, perhaps, to set him apart from Astaroth completely like the others.
 
@DanteSC3 If the order of events were really so important to this game, why wouldnt half these DLC characters be in the base game, while at least Zas, Tira and several SC2 characters pushed to DLC?

Yeah, clones and similar weapons can be made unique. Unpopular clones can also be dropped and replaced for several games too. It seems to me they've settled on who falls in which category. Not everything is fair and on equal grounds.
 
DanteSC3 said:
Hwang and Yun-seong have never been clones, that’s just factually inaccurate. Hwang was a bit of a Mitsurugi clone and then he and Xianghua were quite cloneish in SoulCalibur I, but Yun-seong was built fresh from the ground up. Assassin was Hwang, keeping some of the Xianghuaisms but still a bit differentiated, and differentiated even further in SoulCalibur III to be totally separate from Xianghua. By SoulCalibur III, they were all separate, but aside from being the same weapon type, Yun-seong was always very different than Hwang.
Click to expand...
They might have been somewhat different, but I consider them all to be links of the same evolutionary chain. If we concentrate on SoulCalibur games and discard Soul Blade, Hwang/Assassin was the initial light dao-inspired mutation of X while Yun-seong was the more radical dao mutation of X that left Hwang in the dust. Which makes Hwang a discarded alpha version of Yun-seong in a sense.
 
Ukkesh said:
Also not to be picking anything out, but you are literally contradicting yourself. When you say " the next three pages will be filled with yet more speculation about Hilde, Algol, Viola, ZWEI, and even Dampierre, from those who either don't read more than a page back into the thread or just want to keep on convincing themselves that there are reasons their favourite choice will prevail against all evidence: Reptile=Lizardman, Star=Yun-Seong, Yellow=Hwang, Stone=Rock, Snow=Setsuka, and Yell=Li Long."

You are literally doing the exact same thing you said other people are doing? Li Long hasn't even APPEARED since SCIII AFAIK, but you are still convincing yourself that it is Li-Long. But the main point is: There is no evidence. Other than the codename Yell, we don't have anything to go off of. We can't say there is evidence when there isn't. As much as I'd like to see Li Long, I doubt he's the first candidate for yell , but if Li Long is in I will, uh, do... something. Eh, I'll think of something funny. Yeah.
Click to expand...

No, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you that the situations are parallel. For one thing, I have no particular attachment to Li Long, nor was I prognosticating that he was a particularly likely candidate until the evidence started to add up. And there is evidence, plenty of it, as to what the devs' likely intentions here are. In many interviews they have made it explicit that this game is a retelling of the early arc of the series. Every single last character they have released so far for the game, and every single last one hinted at to date, has come from the first four games. Now all indications are that there are six upcoming characters in the next DLC grouping. Six is the exact number needed to finish the cast from those same exact four games they have been culling characters from to date, and which games are the basis for the plot lines they have explored thus far in VI. Five of the six names are obvious-to-the-point-of-being-undeniable allusions to five of those same characters. The sixth name would fit with a known, rather exagerrated trait of the sixth character that would be needed to complete that roster.

Look, I'm not saying that this is evidence sufficient to consider the matter a fait accompoli, I'm just saying it is by far the best evidence we have as to what to expect. Far better than "Hilde yells a lot" (does she really, compared to the usual Soul Calibur character?--I don't think so, I think that's huge confirmation bias) or "If you take the last half of Dampierre's name and then translate it into Japanese, it is spelled with he same syllabified characters as Yell would be! Also, if you then say it ten times backwards and look into a mirror, Okubo appears and says "Yes, you have unlocked the mystery! We are going to place the least popular character in the franchise into a DLC pack where narratively he doesn't it, just for shits and giggles! Hahahahah!'" We can either predicate our expectation on things the development team have actually said, and the indications found in the product they have delivered so far (particularly a pattern in releases that has held perfectly to this point) or we can choose the characters we want to see and then try to twist the codenames into a shape that seems to work to confirm those biases. I know which one I'm going to put my faith in.

Umbra4life said:
DLC is made to make money. Li Long wouldn't sell nearly as well as a well-known character like Hilde. Namco and PS know that.
Click to expand...

I think this is a rational consideration, but one which breaks down when taken to an extreme. Every time a new game is released in a fighting franchise, the devs could just fall back on their market research and composite their roster out of only their most popular characters. But that's never what happens--there are too many design objectives which thwart such an overly-simplified approach. The game has to work as a cohesive whole and the dev's will settle on decisions about what that means (in terms of both mechanics and narrative), and cuts will be made accordingly. I think the devs have been about as clear as they could be, under the circumstances, about what their thematic objectives are with this game, and it doesn't seems to include SCIV. Hopefully sales on the second season pass will remain strong and that may yet change, but I think they will only go there once they have exhausted characters within the games that have provided the basis for SCVI's story and roster so far.

AMillionHP said:
Oh i've read the comments, most of them anyway. I just dont agree with a lot of it. You're exaggerating things to support your bias as well. Just because this is a retelling, does not at all mean they are locked into digging up every classic SC character. There hasnt been any significant evidence other than vague statements during interviews that can be taken any number of ways concerning PS's priorities.
Click to expand...

We'll have to agree to disagree about that, but it would be a mess at this moment in time to drop forty quotes on this page and five hundred details about what we've actually got in SCVI so far that I believe refute that argument rather absolutely.

AMillionHP said:
One major issue with your predicted DLC lineup is that with the exception of Setsuka it is a lineup of clones and/or duplicated weapons... without a guest.
Hell it even dulicates two of the same weapon on the same season pass. I cant imagine the amount of eyerolls in reaction to Hwang and Yun reveals. That isnt going to sell. You're kidding yourself if you think a sizable amount of people will care about the original roster coming back.
Click to expand...

Let's be clear about our nomenclature here: they aren't "clones". Clones in fighting games are characters who fight with the same style but have a different model. These are simply characters who have similar weapons...and that's like saying you can't have two hung gar fighters in the same Tekken game. Why? Since when was that a barrier in any fighting game, let alone Soul Calibur? Literally every single one of the pairs you are talking about here have appeared next to eachother in at least two Soul Calibur games in the past, and that was always considered perfectly normal, acceptable, and feasible. They've played very differently in the past, and now with Soul Charge and the advancements in the mechanics over the years, this is easier to accomplish than ever.

Furthermore, this particular design team has succeeded in making characters who originated as actual clones (but who have been drifting apart in play style for decades) play more differently than ever. I'm sorry but this is evidence of absolutely nothing other than people's willingess to complain about things that never were a problem in the past and are less likely than ever to be a problem now. I am surprised that they decided to drop Hwang and Yun-Seong together, but I think that's just evidence that the decision to close out the entire roster wasn't finalized until relatively recently.

One thing we can agree on is that it is surprising that they are not going for another guest character. But then again, there is only one game that had more than two guests characters in a single edition, and there were special licensing factors at work with getting those Star Wars characters in for IV. It's entirely possible that Namco was just not willing to pay for licensing to cross-promote any of the other options they had open to them. And they may yet still return to more guests if further season passes prove viable based on profits for the first two.

Himiteshu said:
Don't forget Cassandra and LIZARDMAN, not AEON!!! Fuck, he was named AEON only in one game
Click to expand...

I actually expect they are going to call Lizardman "Aeon" from the get-go this time.

AMillionHP said:
Ok maybe you dont. I know i've seen many on this site call Rock, Aeon, Yun and Hwang a clone.
Click to expand...

Well, they are using the term in a way which is inconsistent with how it has typically been used in fighting game communities for decades now. Probably as a means of registering their ire/being dismissive about likely outcomes they don't like. But Aeon plays no more similarly to Sophitia the last 15 years than either of them plays when compared against Dampierre, frankly. They don't share so much as a single move. Same for the other similar weapon/different approach styles.
 
Rusted Blade said:
Let's be clear about our nomenclature here: they aren't "clones". Clones in fighting games are characters who fight with the same style but have a different model. These are simply characters who have similar weapons...and that's like saying you can't have two hung gar fighters in the same Tekken game. Why? Since when was that a barrier in any fighting game, let alone Soul Calibur? Literally every single one of the pairs you are talking about here have appeared next to eachother in at least two Soul Calibur games in the past, and that was always considered perfectly normal, acceptable, and feasible. They've played very differently in the past, and now with Soul Charge and the advancements in the mechanics over the years, this is easier to accomplish than ever.

Furthermore, this particular design team has succeeded in making characters who originated as actual clones (but who have been drifting apart in play style for decades) play more differently than ever. I'm sorry but this is evidence of absolutely nothing other than people's willingess to complain about things that never were a problem in the past and are less likely than ever to be a problem now. I am surprised that they decided to drop Hwang and Yun-Seong together, but I think that's just evidence that the decision to close out the entire roster wasn't finalized until relatively recently.
Click to expand...

To be fair, your whole comment is confirmation bias and perhaps willingness to see the whole Soul Blade to SCIII roster in SCVI, which is not a bad thing since it shows a lot of passion for the game. However, claiming that "they decided to drop Hwang and Yun-Seong together" and use it as "evidence that the decision to close out the entire roster wasn't finalized until relatively recently" is trying to stretch things a bit too much since all we have is 6 placeholder names that were most likely put there to generate discussion about a season pass 2 and can be changed at any time during the game's development, so these are always better taken with a grain of salt, so basically, the placeholder names are as much of a confirmation of PS wanting to bring back the original roster as it is of them suddenly deciding to add SCIV and V characters.

With that out of the way, as much as having the whole roster from Soul Blade to SCIII would be amazing for the hardcore community, you have to keep in mind that as business they also have to make the season pass appealing to a more casual audience to increase their sells, and that's where the term "clone" comes to play since the casual part of the playerbase and newcomers, who are usually more than hardcore players, will normally see clones when there are 2 characters with similar weapons no mater how different their movesets get to be. I have already seen some flak towards Cass and Amy because of it, and having 2 pseudo-clones in a single season pass could hurt its sales. I personally wouldn't mind to see Yun and Hwang, but i think it would be a really dumb decision to put them in the same season pass.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back