The Importance of NM's pokes.

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KingAce

HERMITISM
The metagame has changed. We all knew this would happen. When people were crying foul; "NM's overpowered." for us it was inevitable that his dominance would be eased.

It seems to me, one fundamental trait all good characters have is strong pokes. Especially strong mids. Contrary to popular beliefs strong mids are better than strong lows ie Pyrrha, Astaroth, etc. You really only need one good low.

Strong pokes are what make a character like Mitsurugi a nightmare to fight, because he can control range while safely pressuring the opponent.

For NM this is where we struggle. NM has a lot of power, but most of that power comes at a price. If NM's powerful moves are blocked, the opponent gets free damage. Throw enough of those out haphazardly and you will quickly lose.

In my opinion, the value of a strong poke game is that you risk little on block/whiff while gaining a lot on hit. They set the tone of the match. Slowly but surely pressuring your opponent to open up widows for your devastating attacks.

NM's poke game is abysmal. But I feel we have to utilize it to compete with faster, safer characters. And stronger safer mids compliment our throw game. To bad we got nerfed.

Personally I favor 9K, 1k , 2B, 66K and 4K. Low risk moves you can throw out without to much concern for punishment.

I saw Keev struggle heavily against Ramon, he was very hesitant to throw out stuff some times.

How do you fellow Nightmare players feel about this theory...?
 

Thermidor

[10] Knight
Ramon plays me all the time so he knows how to fight Nightmare and how to limit his movesets .

If we can't get into our opponents head we won't last much longer we need to keep making them guess wrong and whiff more some characters Like Pyhrra do cause problems but you need to really know how to punish 1K's on reaction while 66A is a problem. Once you can JG those on reaction I think we will slowly start getting our footing back and start rising back on top. I am going to start training my hardest to become the Best Nightmare in America. So far there's a France and DR Nightmare but No American Nightmare and I will aim for that title the best American Nightmare.
 

Pernicious-Soul

[10] Knight
I consider iaga as a poke move. I'll poke you to death with this lol cause I wanna keep my advantage on block. Spam the shit outta this move and watch how open your 3b and 3aa become with them trying to TC or duck your iaga. Abuse this shit!


3k is a good poke as well. His options aren't great but get the job done. 1k is ridiculously good and mixed with 4k BE is a strong mix up. Don't sleep on GS A either as it kills step nicely and CH GS A, 6(B), NS k, 2a+b builds so much meter. 66k for TC highs into your force block GS B.


You say his power moves get you punished but he has a couple very good power moves that are safe and hit like a truck. GS B, 44b and 66 b are all very good, completely safe with great damage. Plus they kill the gauge and has them flashing in no time.
 

Solo

[14] Master
^If your opponent uses a move that quicker than i16 it will beat out all of your options after a 1K except K. You could try using A+B to counter pokes after hitting with 1K. Can't say I've tried it myself but it doesn't sound like a half bad idea.
 

Pernicious-Soul

[10] Knight
1k on hit is only -2 so BS, SS and B+K for evasion. You could also throw out GS A after 1k too negate any vertical strikes or stabs. I wouldn't try A+B after 1k hit. You would need too RCC first also.
 

Solo

[14] Master
RCC isn't too hard to do. Lots of people like to do 2A after getting hit with 1K. As a Sieg player I sometimes buffer a 66A after 1K to counter that. NM could do A+B given they do a quick poke and if they don't block the revenge blast. I use 1K as a reverse mix up until my opponent constantly beat it out. Then I just use it as a poke.
 

Pernicious-Soul

[10] Knight
Looks good on paper lol but I think on 1k hit into B+K too avoid their 2a into A+B, 2A+B is better option. I'll take 50 damage, 1 BE stock and good wakeup options all day long. I love me sum A+B though I just think it's best used in canned strings. 9k is a good option here as well.
 

KingAce

HERMITISM
1K into 9K into Grab NH.
1K into CE.


Somethings that you might not have tried. 33K/77K can actually get around a lot of things, because it sides steps while ducking it's a very good move to interrupt with. In some Astaroth throw/mid scenarios it will kill both options.

NSS backdash, my friend started to use this and surprisingly it's very effective. You can escape things like 2A and whiff punish accordingly even if you enter NSS from WRB.
 

Pernicious-Soul

[10] Knight
KingAce you know I've been preaching about the 33/66k in Asta matchup lol. As for the stance transitions each one has different options. I was thinking about making a new thread directed at this. After some transitions u don't even need to BS to beat out 2a. NSS B will beat it clean.
 

Engared

[10] Knight
3K and 1K are extremely good pokes, arguably the best Nightmare has ever had. Ideally Nightmare should never be in poke range though haha. Long range Nightmare should be more deadly though.

@Kingace- 1K into GI is better than 1K into CE, at least you don't get your shit pushed in for half your health if you guess wrong.
 

Nine-L

[10] Knight
GI to 3(B) NSS b:A > CE in basically all situations. -5 points in damage for 50% less meter and almost infinitely safer if I fuck up? And what? NSS b:A can clean hit too? And it rings out and wall splats? Yes fucking please. Why am I bothering with CE again?

Whatever, not the point. Anyhow, I agree with this thread: poking is good and Nightmare is bad at it, mostly. 2B and almost any direction + K are your best bets at not failing. 3A by itself is technically bad, but CH gives you easy hit confirm to 3(B) to GS to FC mixup. Since 3AA is uninterruptible you get a mixup on whether or not you'll finish the string and your opponent can get some smack down with a little conditioning. It's something I like to employ to add some variety to the ranged stepkilling game... definitely riskier than dat K button, though.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
Everyone keeps saying that GI>CE for NM, but they're forgetting 3 things:

CE cannot be re-GI'ed back

CE has a much larger GI window than GI

If you have the meter and it's the last round, who cares. If you need it to guarantee your win for that round, then all meter usage is justified.



If CE wasn't worth it then why does Keev use it?
 

KingAce

HERMITISM
You have to use NM's CE.

This is a risk you have to take.
At end of Keev vs Ramon, Keev should've known Ramon was going to read his CE because that's when the CE matters the most. Hell I bet all of you NM players that watched it read that Keev doing the CE at that moment was obvious. If Keev hadn't been using it probably would have landed, but because he had been using it he should've read that Ramon was going to hesitate.

The reason you need to use NM's CE is because, you want your opponent to hesitate especially at low health situations. That hesitation/fear gives you an upper hand, because your opponent is a lot more cautious and more likely to throw you which is predictable.


Personally I don't GI a lot because the widow for it is stupid, whiffing a gi and wasting that meter isn't worth it. I only ever use it to re GI. I have many setups for NM's CE. And the fear behind those setups allows me to be aggressive in situations I usually wouldn't be.
 

Pernicious-Soul

[10] Knight
KingAce is right in that your opponent has to know you'll use CE so that they fear it. Knowing you have access to it and willing to use makes them have to change up their approach.

I find that I always have a surplus of meter especially on endless stages so I use GI whenever I can. No need to let that meter go too waste so use that shit.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
And here I was thinking I was gonna get flamed for saying that. Good to know others see the value in NM's CE as well.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
Nothing is funnier than landing his CE on someone who whiffs! Not that it ever happens or anything, but when it does I LOL.
 
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