The Raising Tornado (WS B+K Madness)

Moldredd

Moldredd

[09] Warrior
Firstly introduced in SC3, "Tornado Swell" (DC B+K back in the days) was and is still one of Cervantes most damaging tool in his arsenal. It simply hits hard like a crazy train! However, due to Dread Charge's nature it was pretty much useless outside of combos.

But how on earth could you manage to land such slow move into a combo? Well, back in the day I discovered that not only GDR could be instantly pulled out of DC but TS as well. I remember when I posted CH 3B_8A+B, iTS variations for 90-100+ dmg in sc.com during the SC3 era. It was simply a blast for the old man!

The move was back in SC4 even though it wasn't as damaging as his SC3 counterpart. However it was still a nice tool for combos. That until Namco nerfed it to do even less damage. That's when I decided to stop using it completely.

In SC5, however, the move's notation is drastically changed from DC B+K to simply WS B+K. Another good thing is that it's speed will always be that of a iTS back in the days. So what does that mean?

It simply means that now it's functionality is to punish whiffed high moves for a nice ~78-97 of pain.

Technically, you can punish every whiffed high in the game with it but let's just focus in those loved strings/moves that people tend to do or are simply more visible to our eyes or simply guaranteed. In the end, what matters is that you show them you know their business and will cause psychological pressure by abruptly limiting their options/habits . But keep in mind that if you fail big time then it's time to say goodbye to our favorite pirate as you just pulled out probably the most unsafe move in the entire game. In other words: High Fortune/Capital Punishment.

But enough of history lessons let's get this thing started:

Updated: April / 10 / 2012

Tornado Swell Damage:

Normal Hit: ~77-80
Counter Hit: ~81-84
Clean Hit: ~90-94
CH + CH: ~94-97


Universal:

AA

Throws

α Patroklos

Aeon:

44B, A, A - Quite slow. Last two hits are high but just focus on the last. As soon as you see the sparks, duck.

Algol:

6KK - First hit is mid, second is high. Block the first and punish.

Astaroth:

1K, A

Cervantes:

DC A
4BK

Dampierre:

Ezio Auditore:

66AB - First hit is mid, second is high and quite slow. So you should have plenty of time to punish it.

Hilde:

Ivy:

6A, K - Both are high, if they decide to do K then you have a free Tornado.

WS A+B, A - Last hit is high so if you see the second hit then it's already late for her.

Leixia:

Maxi:

4BBK - Last hit is high. Duck after the second B, if you see he will do anything else than the K then Stand up. You should have enough time to react to that as K is the fastest follow up after 4BB.

BBBK - Another variable of above's

2A+B - First hit is low, second high. If you manage to block the first hit then you have a guaranteed tornado.

BL KK/BL K BE - Both versions' First hit is low, second is high.

WS KK - First hit is mid, second high. If they fail to confirm the first, duck the second and punish.

Mitsurugi:

Natsu:

BBK - Last hit is high.

B[K] - Duck as soon as you see the second hit's GB sparks..

66_33_99B BE - Second hit is high. Duck it and make sure they know is not that good.

Nightmare:

4K, K/4K, BE - Second hit is high, duck and punish without worrying about his remaining BE hits, if they went for it. You need to be precise and fast though as doing it a little late will allow the BE hits to hit you.

GS K BE - Second hit is high. Timing is a bit tight.

Patroklos:

Pyrrha:

Pyrrha Ω:

Raphael:

Preparation K BE - Second kick is High.

Siegfried:

Tira:

Viola:

66AAB - All hits are high. During the third hit she jumps over you and lands at your back. Duck the third attack and punish her. You should have just enough time to position yourself and do so.

BT B+K - Her BT game is quite laughable. Everything deals little damage. Just duck and kill every possible mixup. BT B+K is the same as above's third hit. So if she ever goes for that, you know the drill.

Voldo:

66A+B, K

Xiba:

Yoshimitsu:

Z.W.E.I.:

66BA

"Learn to appreciate TS because soon it will be respected out of fear and order."

Random fact: TS can combos out of 44A+B_[A+B], the angle is tedious, though. Is not worth it either considering there are far better damaging options if YOU ever manage to land 44A+B at least lol.

Is far from complete but that will change soon as we will be adding more info. so feel free to contribute!
 
Hmm, the most obvious/easy to see coming moves I can think of are Nightmares 2nd punch, I think the notation is something like 6K,K, Alpha Pats 22_88A,A, Patrokolos' A+B (Real easy to spot his sheild shines green as it aGI's for a second before, and he cant cancel it), and Mits' move where he goes into that stance takes a step back ad then one forward and pokes you.
Sorry for the lack of techincal terms, and real useful thread think I might have to print this off when the list is big
 
I do want to note that some of these are tight-ish timing and/or spacing dependent. If your execution is good, WSB might be a better option in some cases, but easy 80 is still wonderful.

Maxi: last hit of 4BBK, and a couple of low, high moves/strings the inputs for which I don't know...=/
 
Just wanted to say that 44A+B is not a bad move in this game. It has decect evading properties and when you have a read on your opponent its over 9000 damage. High risk, high reward. But not a joke move. It has its use imo.

Also you should always check if opponent can bait your WR B+K, cancel his String, block and punish you really bad. WR B+K is still -9000 on whiff.

So i think i'd just prefer iWR B most of the time....but good to have a list nontheless!
 
Hates: Yeah, I think you are talking about Mitsu and Xiba's. I might remove them in the long run or simply point they are indeed tight. What do you suggest?

Besides if they are willing to do the last B with Mitsu, they simply eat B+K.

WS B is indeed a better option but for those situations in which your life depends on landing WS B, iGDR, I would go with WS B+K (my iGDR execution is moderate:/ ), who knows, it might be a life saver, especially if lucks is on your side and the game grants you a clean hit plus the extra CH dmg. That's overkill!:)

Doc: I wouldn't do the move unless I know I'm underneath their weapons lol. I'll only post those string that can be seen and can't be canceled. So Xiba's and Mitsu's will probably be removed from the list.
 
Voldo's 66A+B K is already listed but thanks anyway.

PS. Updated the list with Raphael's moves.
 
Updated with Viola and Nightmare's. All for now.

Edit: Also added some of Natsu's
 
Some for Algol, His 6B,B,B all hit high, and his 6K,K hits M,H so duck the second hit if you block it then counter.

One for ezio, 66A,B the B(crosswbow) hits high. His 66A,2B you don't have to worry about since the low is much slower, so I believe you can tornado before he fires the low bolt, but correct me if i am wrong.
 
Algol's 6BBB is not confirm-able in a real match. You need to react fast to the first hit so you can punish his second one which is very impractical on reaction. You would be just guessing.

As for Ezio, yeah, I remember playing as him for a while and his low arrow is indeed slower than the high so yeah, ducking and tornado kills the mixup. I don't think a good Ezio would do this string up close though but in case they ever dare.

Thanks for the contribution. Keep em coming!

PS. Updated: Added Algol's, Ezio's and more of Maxi's.
 
Glad you are finding it useful. Stay tuned for more in the upcoming days!

Edit: Added Z.W.E.I's and more of Cervantes'.
 
If Xiba ever tries his rememberance stance, immediately step LEFT as soon as you see the green flash. Then instant WR B+K beats every option he has if you do it as soon as you possibly can out of the step.Unless he does nothing, in which case you don't WR B+K. Never get hit by a REM move again!
You just have to be quick and it'll hit him every time.

However, I find WR B can work better in that instance, you don't have to be so quick with that. But it does rely on you being able to do iGDR for the damage.

For Mitsurugi mist stance, immediate step RIGHT followed by a low guard and WR B+K seems to beat a lot of stuff too. Its not like Xiba though, you have to watch what he does. If he tries mist A+B/mist B BE, sometimes it can track right and hit you if you don't time your right step correctly. Also, you do have to be very quick with the WR B+K or certain moves such as mist B,B,B will leave him out of range and you in an extremely bad position having whiffed with WR B+K.
However, for mist K,B, you don't WR B+K immediately or you get hit. You need to delay it a little.

So it is a great way do deal with mist, but you can't be braindead about it. You have do react according to what he does and sometimes its just better to backthrow/3B after the right step low G, but it is still possible to shut down that whole stance with WR B+K.
 
Somewhat interesting, though mildly useless way to get WS B+K to hit - bait your opponent into punishing 2A+B.

2A+B recovers crouching, if your opponent decides to punish it with an AA, you can buffer in B+K and you'll be stuck in TC frames up until impact.

Of course, it doesn't work against good players, but its something to consider.
 
Thanks for this info Moldredd...I've got a question tho, can you follow it up with anything? Like the spinning in the air move that comes after iGDR, 4A+B, or4B BE? Or at least 3A?
 
masuds19 said:
Thanks for this info Moldredd...I've got a question tho, can you follow it up with anything? Like the spinning in the air move that comes after iGDR, 4A+B, or4B BE? Or at least 3A?
Click to expand...

There is no followup to WR B+K. I guess 80 Damage is also enough for itself.
The move is incredible risky and most of the time there is no reason at all to use it, except there is a specific setup where you need the TC Frames of it. (Like against Nights 3B on close range). Its just to damn unsafe, WRB serves the same purpose most of the time, is save and gets you the same damage if you have the execution for it.
 
WS B+K is still useful for when you duck an easy string (for ex. Ivy's WS A+B, A) and are looking for the 90+ clean hit dmg. But that's just me.

I agree it should be avoided at much as possible. But when the aforementioned happens and they see a large chuck of their life gone in a blink of an eye. It really pays. But again, that's just me.
 
Moldredd said:
WS B+K is still useful for when you duck an easy string (for ex. Ivy's WS A+B, A) and are looking for the 90+ clean hit dmg. But that's just me.

I agree it should be avoided at much as possible. But when the aforementioned happens and they see a large chuck of their life gone in a blink of an eye. It really pays. But again, that's just me.
Click to expand...
You can also iGDR out of the duck for more damage too. With a much less strict time frame.
At least that's what I tend to do. I don't care for using WR B+K personally.
 
I really like this, been using it more and more with, what I think is, more than moderate success. It really has some unexpected range/coverage and the damage, expected and possible, makes it worth it for me.
 
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