Trying to Redeem the SCV Newcomers

SCV had a shit story mode. That's why the new kids weren't liked. But they were, at least, unique. There were too many characters with the same base personality.

Mitsu = Die and begone
Ivy = Die, you're beneath me, begone
Setsuka = Die, scatter, and begone
Taki = Die, perish, and begone
Sieg = Die, This is the end, and begone
Sophita = die, I'm sorry, begone

That's why characters like Cassandra, Maxi, Tira, Talim, Zas, Mina, etc, were refreshing. If Natsu was in SC1 through 4, and we got Taki in 5, bet money this whole discussion would go the other way. We don't even know if Natsu acts like Naruto, because she had, what, 2 lines of story dialogue? She has a demon trapped in her. That and being a blonde ninja are the only things tying her to Naruto. It's a tired argument at this point.

The important thing is to make the characters LOOK fun to play. Personality is usually secondary to that.
 
HydroJamesAqua said:
Patroklos

He may well be the hardest character to get the fans to warm up to. While none of the new characters got the we're very liked by many of the fans, Patroklos attracted the most vile out of all of them. He was seen as a lame excuse of a hero who remorselessly kills innocent people for no reason. However, he wasn't supposed to be seen that way. Similar to Siegfried, he was supposed to start out as jerk before realizing the error of his ways and righting his wrongs. People who accuse him of being a remorseless killer will overlook the scene in SCV's story mode when he encounters his former employer, Graf Dumas, and finds out that he is Nightmare and the people he was sent to kill were not malfested, but innocent people which causes Pat to have a breakdown once he realized what he has been doing.

Also, I feel that people who look down on Pat and talk about what a great hero Siegfried was would ignore that Siegfried in his youth had committed atrocities that were just as awful, if not worse, than the ones Pat commited. Sieg's crimes include:
  • Falling into a bad crowd, joining a band of thieves.
  • Betraying and killing Sir Stefan, a comrade in the mist of the siege on the Ostrheinsburg castle for his sword, Grimblade, thinking it was Sour Edge.
  • Accidentally killing his father while ambushing his army. (His father was a commander of the German army. He should have known better.)
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This is all true but the difference is Siegfried wasn't portrayed as a hero in Soul Edge and he didn't try to justify his actions by convincing himself that the innocents he attacked were malfested. He didn't have an arrogant, douchey personality either and his fighting style was unique and not based on another character. Also I think it's important to keep in mind that Soul Edge came out during a different time in video gaming. The storyline wasn't an integral part of most arcade games back in the mid 90's. If you didn't play the home version of the game the only part of Siegfried's story you would know about is the ending where he gets taken over by Soul Edge.
 
T
ZeroEffect317 said:
SCV had a shit story mode. That's why the new kids weren't liked. But they were, at least, unique.
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Not really. Except for ZWEI and Viola they were all heavily based on the characters they replaced. Compared to the new characters in SCIII and IV they weren't very unique at all. Anyway, I don't see a reason to waste any more time with the newcomers at this point. They were pretty strongly disliked and I doubt that's going to change if they bring them back. Might as well scrap them and go back to the drawing board.
 
In moveset, maybe, but their personalities were different than the ones they replaced (except Leixia, though her mother felt more mature). And besides, they weren't given the opportunity to do something in the story, the game's rushed release ruined anything they could have brought, while the older characters were more active in the story.
 
Their personalities were different in a bad way though. I could maybe put up with Natsu since she wasn't too annoying and her personality is a nice contrast to Taki's stoic nature, but I don't want to see the rest of them again. Keep Viola, Zwei and Natsu and ditch the rest.
 
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subsmoke said:
T

Not really. Except for ZWEI and Viola they were all heavily based on the characters they replaced. Compared to the new characters in SCIII and IV they weren't very unique at all. Anyway, I don't see a reason to waste any more time with the newcomers at this point. They were pretty strongly disliked and I doubt that's going to change if they bring them back. Might as well scrap them and go back to the drawing board.
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I meant their personalities, not movesets.
 
subsmoke said:
This is all true but the difference is Siegfried wasn't portrayed as a hero in Soul Edge and he didn't try to justify his actions by convincing himself that the innocents he attacked were malfested. He didn't have an arrogant, douchey personality either and his fighting style was unique and not based on another character. Also I think it's important to keep in mind that Soul Edge came out during a different time in video gaming. The storyline wasn't an integral part of most arcade games back in the mid 90's. If you didn't play the home version of the game the only part of Siegfried's story you would know about is the ending where he gets taken over by Soul Edge.
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Whether storyline was a prominent part or not in the 90's is irrelevant, Soul Blade still had a storyline established that should be taken into account, especially by the fans who claims to care about the story and the characters.

From his quotes in Soul Blade, you could tell Siegfried was cocky as well.
And he was one to think the end justified the means, trying to acquire Soul Edge at all costs (by killing Sir Stefan to steal his sword) to avenge his father who he actually killed because of his own foolishness and refused to ackwowledge, leading to greater disasters with the Evil Seed.
It was all selfish and something he did on his own will, whether Patroklos was mislead into thinking he was working for the greater good....twice (by Nightmare and Soul Calibur) where all he wanted was finding Pyrrah.

Both of them managed to face their responsibilities and matured in the end. That's why I think there's a big double standard going on about those two who actually share a similar beginning and evolution.
Seeing how Patroklos has grown up in the end, he'd probably end up being less douchebagey and more humble and collected in SCVI.
 
Also I like Pat's fighting style and don't want to miss it out of game. He, unlike both Pyrrahs, don't really copy anyone (not talking about Alpha, return Setsuka) and there is just 2 proper shield&sword users in the game (if we consider Pyrrahs to be one person). I want him to stay at least for that. Also as we have redeemed SE puppet (Seig), why not have SC too?
Also I don't understand all the fuzz about incest between Pyrrah and Pat. Given their circumstances it's totally okay for them to hold onto each other too much. Think about it they both been raised without parents, Pat was fighting "in the name of justice" and twice was betrayed by ones by whose side he fought, Pyrrah's life was controled into nonstopping misery by Tira and then she was turned into Nightmare. There is nothing about incest - the only family they have are each other and the only people they can trust is each other.
 
Considering that Namco themselves slammed Patroklos, I don't see his chances of returning being all that good.
 
Iceweb38 said:
They slammed him?
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Iceweb38 said:
ha right, the messages where they were only acknowledging he didn't get as many votes as expected.
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It's the way he said it. He was basically mocking him for being so massively unpopular, and combine that with the edited profiles on the SC website also roasting him, and it's clear his chances of returning aren't all that great. Gamers have made it clear that they don't want him.
 
Thats very hypocritical of his part, its their fault that Patroklos became hated in the first place. And that doesn't mean they're gonna scrap him, you saw in his profile, they edited it instead of deleting.
 
Iceweb38 said:
Whether storyline was a prominent part or not in the 90's is irrelevant, Soul Blade still had a storyline established that should be taken into account, especially by the fans who claims to care about the story and the characters.
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My point is comparing Patroklos to Siegfried is apples to oranges because Siegfried wasn't portrayed as a hero in Soul Edge. He was just a random warrior who happened to be looking for the Soul Edge sword and then in the 1st and 2nd games he was Nightmare. He didn't actually become the hero of the story until SCIII. Patroklos on the other hand was the main character of SCV and we were supposed to buy him as the hero even though he was a horrible one. That's why the reaction to him was different. That and the fact that his weapon and fighting style were based on other characters. People wanted Sophitia and Setsuka and instead they got him. It was like a bad prank.
 
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