Viola Story

Maedel said:
What I had thought when Viola says that is this:

Moon = Raphael as Nightmare. If you customize Nightmare's costume his face is clearly Raphael.
Sun = Raphael as a human.
"The Moon will swallow the Sun and it shall never rise again."
Here is my novel of a speculation:

In Nightmare's profile in SCV, it says that he found a body underneath Ostrheinsburg after the events of SCIV. According to Amy's ending in SCIV, there is a possibility that this corpse is Raphael, assuming the fact that Nightmare has his model in-game. Just look at a few minor details -- Graf Dumas' persona is exactly like Raphael; court politician, essentially. Their voices are very similar as well. Soul Edge could be so strongly corrupting Raphael that he does not meddle with things like his identity. Then again, his will for Amy is so strong that his soul broke away from his body -- hence the in-game Raphael with the hat -- and is just merely living as a spirit, still thinking that he is looking for Amy. That could also explain in Raphael's profile "how long had he been climbing that spiral staircase?" and how he just knew that he needed to begin searching for Amy, without questioning that he woke in a cellar. Now, Viola's phrase could simply mean this: Soul Edge is corrupting Raphael so much that he may never reunite with his soul again.

Personally, I think that there is a part in Raphael/Graf Dumas that still wants to search for Amy. After defeating Viola, considering with the theory that she is Amy, Nightmare lets out a moaning sound, as if in pain. Also, one of Nightmare's win quotes is "Now Soul Edge, grant your master his wish!" not really sure about that, but it might be related to Viola.

That's my theory. ._.
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Please... marry me? ;w;
 
Let's look at a few more of Viola's quotes shall we.
In the moon, I see everything.- Obviously it means that she can see everything through her orb, she's a psychic basically is what it's saying.
The moon is red, red like wine.- I wrote what this meant about Amy being Viola in my profile. She only says it to a few people like Ivy and Pyrrha. This could be her addressing maybe people that have been in contact with Soul Edge or something.
I am empty, but you are emptier still- This one may not have a meaning. It could just be an insult in a fortune teller sort of way....
Red wine is different from white, removing the grape skin makes all the difference- This was her warning to Pat about Pyrrha. Red wine being Pyrrha Omega and white being Pyrrha. Removing the grape skin could be removing her kind nature or just excepting Soul Edge.
What I want to know is what is her fascination with wine and the moon.
Edit: Here is what I said about the quote in my profile. This is not an invitation to discuss further on the Amy=Viola debate.
The Moon is Red, Red like Wine, The Moon is White, Viola's Hair is White, Amy's Red, The Moon is Red, Viola is Amy. Hope it makes sense.
 
[quote="OutCast, post: 506043, member: 7757"snip.[/quote]

Hm Id like to know your idea(s) about the text Viola and Raph share when they fight each other...
 
The moon will swallow the sun and it will never rise again- To me, this means two things. If she is Amy, this means that she represents the moon and Raph is the sun. The sun is a star and it'll eventually die. The moon however will out live the sun. This could mean that Viola/Amy has out grown Raph's evil ways.
The second meaning is that she is giving him a reading that means the same thing except she is talking ABOUT Amy. Saying she's out grown him and blah blah blah. This one puzzles me out of all of them really. Not sure if I explained it correctly though.
 
OutCast said:
The moon will swallow the sun and it will never rise again- To me, this means two things. If she is Amy, this means that she represents the moon and Raph is the sun. The sun is a star and it'll eventually die. The moon however will out live the sun. This could mean that Viola/Amy has out grown Raph's evil ways.
The second meaning is that she is giving him a reading that means the same thing except she is talking ABOUT Amy. Saying she's out grown him and blah blah blah. This one puzzles me out of all of them really. Not sure if I explained it correctly though.
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Hmm. Just a thought, but, if she was wanting to tell Raphael that the Amy he once loved is now gone, wouldn't that imply that Viola has an idea of who Amy actually was? Or do you think that she would simply be able to see into his soul, as she could the other characters, and see that he was longing for his lost love?

Another thing I thought was interesting, upon doing some research, it's speculated that the reason Viola keeps her crystal ball so close to her all the time is because it contains her lost memories.

Speaking upon Nightmare and Raphael, I think it was confirmed that in Soul Calibur V, Raphael was actually the living dead now. I don't know if he was killed and revived, or if his heart just stopped beating or something, but the thought that Nightmare had took control over Raphael's mortal body and his soul became a physical manifestation of itself because of such, is honestly an interesting idea to me. xD
 
Another question:

Does Raphael share any special battle quotes or thoughts with any character other than Viola? I don't think I've ever recalled it, but I've got an idea in mind, though I want a little bit of evidence to increase my speculation upon it.

*Turns on SCV.*
 
AmorAstrum said:
Another question:

Does Raphael share any special battle quotes or thoughts with any character other than Viola? I don't think I've ever recalled it, but I've got an idea in mind, though I want a little bit of evidence to increase my speculation upon it.

*Turns on SCV.*
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Well besides ZWEI ....Im not sure....but all he says with ZWEI is "strange?" when you bite his neck ;p
 
AmorAstrum said:
Hmm. Just a thought, but, if she was wanting to tell Raphael that the Amy he once loved is now gone, wouldn't that imply that Viola has an idea of who Amy actually was? Or do you think that she would simply be able to see into his soul, as she could the other characters, and see that he was longing for his lost love?

Another thing I thought was interesting, upon doing some research, it's speculated that the reason Viola keeps her crystal ball so close to her all the time is because it contains her lost memories.

Speaking upon Nightmare and Raphael, I think it was confirmed that in Soul Calibur V, Raphael was actually the living dead now. I don't know if he was killed and revived, or if his heart just stopped beating or something, but the thought that Nightmare had took control over Raphael's mortal body and his soul became a physical manifestation of itself because of such, is honestly an interesting idea to me. xD
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Well, she is a fortune teller. She may not know who Amy is, but she's just telling Raph that he's in for a disappointment whether or not its her. And I read on the wiki that the orb is stealing her memories and that this is stated in the art book New Legends of Project Soul. But I don't have a copy to confirm it. Raphael was a vampire since III so it's been confirmed that he was living dead a while ago. That is an interesting idea I'll say that, Nightmare in IV and Elysium seem to live without a medium. So I think it's possible for Raph.

AmorAstrum said:
Another question:

Does Raphael share any special battle quotes or thoughts with any character other than Viola? I don't think I've ever recalled it, but I've got an idea in mind, though I want a little bit of evidence to increase my speculation upon it.

*Turns on SCV.*
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When he fights Voldo and loses he'll shout 'an outrage!'. When he beats Voldo he'll say 'now guardian, begone.' There seems to be a relationship between the two, but I don't know what it is.
And the thing with Zwei, he could just be reacting to his abnormal blood. Zwei may actually be a werewolf. Other than those two and Viola, no one else. Or so I think.
 
OutCast said:
Well, she is a fortune teller. She may not know who Amy is, but she's just telling Raph that he's in for a disappointment whether or not its her. And I read on the wiki that the orb is stealing her memories and that this is stated in the art book New Legends of Project Soul. But I don't have a copy to confirm it. Raphael was a vampire since III so it's been confirmed that he was living dead a while ago. That is an interesting idea I'll say that, Nightmare in IV and Elysium seem to live without a medium. So I think it's possible for Raph.
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Ah, what I meant to say was, he was the living dead in a more... technical sense? I don't want to go completely on technicalities, but in all seriousness (and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or pissy, so I apologize in advance if it seems that way), has it ever been mentioned that Raphael needs to drink blood like the classic vampire does (which would prove that he is an actual vampire) or does he willingly choose to so he could install both physical and psychological fear into those who would try to approach him? Possible theories to support such things could be that he was inspired by a powerful figure such as Vlad The Impaler (who his stage in SCIII made several references to), or he thought it was a humiliating yet also sadistically enjoyable way to confront his foes. I think the same thing could be said of Tira, somewhat. In her Critical Finish in SCV, she kisses her opponent and drains the life from them; as what is done by a succubus in folklore and mythology... but that doesn't necessarily make her a succubus, you know? (Although, from the way she's been acting in SCV, she might as well be. :B )

I've gotten slightly off topic, but what I was trying to express was, I was always under the assumption that the story at least implied that whether he had vampiric traits or not, Raphael still had a living, breathing heart until the point of SCV.

OutCast said:
When he fights Voldo and loses he'll shout 'an outrage!'. When he beats Voldo he'll say 'now guardian, begone.' There seems to be a relationship between the two, but I don't know what it is.
And the thing with Zwei, he could just be reacting to his abnormal blood. Zwei may actually be a werewolf. Other than those two and Viola, no one else. Or so I think.
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I find that interesting. I was going to originally suggest that if Raphael was confirmed as deceased and he seemed to approach more of the magically-orientated characters (mainly Viola, but possibly Z.W.E.I., etc.), then it could make a strong amount of sense; Viola being a fortune teller and a strong stereotype of such being said to be capable of communicating with spirits and other creatures who have not yet been capable of crossing over due to unfilled desires, or having a deep connection with the world that managed to bind them to it.
 
AmorAstrum said:
Ah, what I meant to say was, he was the living dead in a more... technical sense? I don't want to go completely on technicalities, but in all seriousness (and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or pissy, so I apologize in advance if it seems that way), has it ever been mentioned that Raphael needs to drink blood like the classic vampire does (which would prove that he is an actual vampire) or does he willingly choose to so he could install both physical and psychological fear into those who would try to approach him? Possible theories to support such things could be that he was inspired by a powerful figure such as Vlad The Impaler (who his stage in SCIII made several references to), or he thought it was a humiliating yet also sadistically enjoyable way to confront his foes. I think the same thing could be said of Tira, somewhat. In her Critical Finish in SCV, she kisses her opponent and drains the life from them; as what is done by a succubus in folklore and mythology... but that doesn't necessarily make her a succubus, you know? (Although, from the way she's been acting in SCV, she might as well be. :B )

I've gotten slightly off topic, but what I was trying to express was, I was always under the assumption that the story at least implied that whether he had vampiric traits or not, Raphael still had a living, breathing heart until the point of SCV.



I find that interesting. I was going to originally suggest that if Raphael was confirmed as deceased and he seemed to approach more of the magically-orientated characters (mainly Viola, but possibly Z.W.E.I., etc.), then it could make a strong amount of sense; Viola being a fortune teller and a strong stereotype of such being said to be capable of communicating with spirits and other creatures who have not yet been capable of crossing over due to unfilled desires, or having a deep connection with the world that managed to bind them to it.
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Raphael was affected by Soul Edge and turned into a vampire. Soul Edge has different affects on different people. Seeing as to how he fought before in SCII, he wasn't so much of a vampire-type fighter. Then came SCIV (Or III, don't remember if he had it) but he started to bite people in the neck. And when you won with a Critical Finish, he would say "How does it feel to no longer be human" that or "How does it feel to be reborn". Both of these seems like confirmation that he is indeed a vampire.
Two questions I have with everyone, What is Raph's relationship with Voldo?(Even though this is a Viola thread....) And what is her deal with wine and the moon? She uses them as a tool in her words for some reason.
 
OutCast said:
And what is her deal with wine and the moon? She uses them as a tool in her words for some reason.
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.....PS didnt want us to know but shes a drunk also the moon...it stands for cheese ( the moon is made of cheese lol)
and if you think about it shes OOOOBVIOUSLY Amy...so shes french...and what do the french like Wine and Cheese.
Boom there you go. Mind F*cked.

loool
 
Honestly, my opinion is that Raph is Nightmare, During the game while nightmare has his sword, he is nightmare, when ZWEI defeats him, he loses the sword, becomes Raph again. This is when he starts searching, and he doesn't recognize Amy because shes not the child he once knew. He doesn't realize that its been 17 years, he is looking for a little girl with red hair, not a woman with white hair. His arrogance is the cause of the confusion. my 2 gold coins.
 
You've guys have forced me to talk about Raph and Nightmare now.
Quick question, does Raphael seem like he would be one of the people that could control Soul Edge, like Cervantes or Algol, and not get possessed. Like he would take Soul Edge and be in complete control. And besides, Soul Edge would turn into the sword that best fits the user. So wouldn't you think Soul Edge would instead be a rapier rather than a zweihander.
 
OutCast said:
What is Raph's relationship with Voldo?
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If this "Raph is Nightmare" speculation is true, than it could mean that Raph knows a little bit about Voldo. Seeing as Voldo believes that Soul Edge (and therefor to an extent, Nightmare) is his deceased master. Or the voice of his dead master. When Raphael defeats him he is essentially saying that he doesnt require his services anymore, or something to that degree. It'd also explain why he says "AN OUTRAGE" when losing to him, cause he lost to his servant

OutCast said:
Quick question, does Raphael seem like he would be one of the people that could control Soul Edge, like Cervantes or Algol, and not get possessed. Like he would take Soul Edge and be in complete control. And besides, Soul Edge would turn into the sword that best fits the user. So wouldn't you think Soul Edge would instead be a rapier rather than a zweihander.
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As far as i can tell Raphael seems to be resisting, or even in control of the sword at times. Judging by his reactions to defeating Viola, his talk of wishes, and his careful planning. He possesses a great deal of control over the sword, although it does weigh heavily on him. He is certainly the stubborn type, depending on how / when Raphael's spirit-ghost form comes into play it could mean that he can have his soul and body split, while still retaining some semblance of his personality and desires while being Nightmare.

As for the weapon type thing that seems to be a strange quality about Raphael. When he is seen carrying Soul Edge in SC2 he is seen dragging the huge two handed weapon that Nightmare uses. Presumably not altering its shape to his rapier style while he changed the world. This is also the case in SC3, he drags the enormous weapon all the way back to his castle and apparently consumes its energy due to the strange glow of his eyes, while still being in control. Than in SC4 he is seen wielding Soul Calibur in its two handed form, not only that but swinging it around quickly and lightly in one hand as if it were a rapier.

This could mean Raphael just doesnt give a flip about what weapon he uses while he has the soul swords. Believing their strength alone would be enough to compensate for his lack of specializing in two handed weapons. Or that he somehow "absorbs" the knowledge of the previous users style to use for himself. Seeing as he is some kind of vampire thing, that is not a hard thing to imagine. Or it could be any number of reasons.
 
taffertier said:
If this "Raph is Nightmare" speculation is true, than it could mean that Raph knows a little bit about Voldo. Seeing as Voldo believes that Soul Edge (and therefor to an extent, Nightmare) is his deceased master. Or the voice of his dead master. When Raphael defeats him he is essentially saying that he doesnt require his services anymore, or something to that degree. It'd also explain why he says "AN OUTRAGE" when losing to him, cause he lost to his servant



As far as i can tell Raphael seems to be resisting, or even in control of the sword at times. Judging by his reactions to defeating Viola, his talk of wishes, and his careful planning. He possesses a great deal of control over the sword, although it does weigh heavily on him. He is certainly the stubborn type, depending on how / when Raphael's spirit-ghost form comes into play it could mean that he can have his soul and body split, while still retaining some semblance of his personality and desires while being Nightmare.

As for the weapon type thing that seems to be a strange quality about Raphael. When he is seen carrying Soul Edge in SC2 he is seen dragging the huge two handed weapon that Nightmare uses. Presumably not altering its shape to his rapier style while he changed the world. This is also the case in SC3, he drags the enormous weapon all the way back to his castle and apparently consumes its energy due to the strange glow of his eyes, while still being in control. Than in SC4 he is seen wielding Soul Calibur in its two handed form, not only that but swinging it around quickly and lightly in one hand as if it were a rapier.

This could mean Raphael just doesnt give a flip about what weapon he uses while he has the soul swords. Believing their strength alone would be enough to compensate for his lack of specializing in two handed weapons. Or that he somehow "absorbs" the knowledge of the previous users style to use for himself. Seeing as he is some kind of vampire thing, that is not a hard thing to imagine. Or it could be any number of reasons.
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Well, remember when Pyrrha took Soul Edge and it turned into a short sword? That tells me that soul edge would immediately know what weapon is best for the user and turn into it.
Then again, Maxi took Soul Edge in his SCIV ending and it didn't turn into nunchucks. Soul Edge works in strange ways to be honest.
I always wondered how Raphael was able to handle Soul Calibur the way he did in his and Amy's ending. He moved it so fast where as Seigfried had to lug it around in battle. Maybe it has something to do with his vampire strength or something.
 
I had a random thought regarding Viola.

Bear with me, but, I was in the middle of researching and something suddenly occurred to me; the creators strongly tried to state that Viola is an entirely unique character, and in the new chain of souls that was created for SCV, Amy and Viola are mentioned to be separate characters.

As for my idea... is it possible that Amy passed away shortly during or after SCIV, but because she had been influenced with the essence of Soul Edge, she could have been resurrected; the resurrected individual becoming what would eventually be known as Viola? The 17 year gap could explain Viola's seemingly young, but obviously older age than what Amy appeared to be in past games and surely enough, it could explain other matters, too.

The fact that Amy and Viola resemble one another is normally an example of resurrection, as it tries to express similarities to the past life whilst creating individual features upon the new one.

Furthermore, isn't it possible that it could explain and further support why Raphael wouldn't immediately recognize her? Several things would make a lot more sense and add up.
 
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